Webelos age requirement question

[garygarrison2003]

I am a two cub dad,w/ a 10 yr old fifth grader in Webelos 2 working on his AOL and a 9 yr old in the third grade (held back a year) who has never been a cub but is now interested in becoming active. He is now working on his Bobcat and then we intend to work on his Webelo 1 this winter and start him in Web. 2 when he turns 10 next July. For logistic purposes I need to keep both of them together for meetings, events, etc. I intend to work with the 9 yr old third grader on the side for the Web I requirements but let him attend the Web. II meetings with the older boys den. I just can not make two meetings a week. Is there anything wrong with putting him with the Web. 2 den and get him through Bobcat and Webelos I and then work on Webelos II on the side as the older Webelos transition into a troop. As soon as he can meet the requirements of AOL he would become a Boy Scout. I know this advancement schedule will be unorthodox and he looses the group identity of being in a den of his peers. I would essentially be a one cub Webelos 1 den attending a Webelos 2 meeting. Is there anything in the regs that would disallow this plan? Can a 9 yr old third grader be a member of a Webelos 2 den working on his Webelos 1 rank and receive his Webelos 1 rank before his 10th birthday and before he is in the fourth grade?

[ScoutNut]

Your son does not qualify, either by age or grade, as a Webelos Scout.

 

Webelos are boys who have completed 3rd grade OR are age 10.

 

Bears, on the other hand, are boys who have completed 2nd grade OR are age 9.

 

Your son is a Bear. He can NOT sign up as a Webelos of any kind, 1, 2 or even 1.5.

 

Why, other than not wanting to drive him to the Den meetings, do you want to force your son into this situation? This is not a good thing. Let him attend Bear meetings with the rest of the boys in his class.

 

 

[CubScoutJo]

As a third Grader, he should be working towards the Bear Badge. "The Bear Badge can be earned by boys who have completed second grade, or who are nine years old."

 

The Webelos Badge is for boys who have COMPLETED third grade, or who are ten years old. So this summer,after he FINISHES third grade, he could start working towards the Webelos Badge. Webelos is really an 18 month or so program. Packs usually divide them into Webelos I and Webelos II, but it doesn't have to be that way. He could work with the Webelos II after completing third grade if you really want him too. But why not keep him with his agemates if that is the way your pack does it? Or is it that he is the ONLY 3rd grader in the pack right now?

 

Jo

 

[garygarrison2003]

Thank you for answering my question. It is not a matter of driving, it is a matter of being involved with each of my sons scouting activities. I am a single parent trying to raise these boys and keep a business together. I do not have two afternoons a week to go to a meeting, help plan it and be involved with all of the activities. I am trying to keep them together. They are only 14 months apart. The Official Scouting web site on the topic Weblelos Transition; www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-096/ states, "Cub Scouting takes place largely in the family and a boy advances from Tiger..., Wolf..., Bear..., and Webelos Scout at ages 9 and 10. The Cub Scout parents serve as leaders and most events take place in the the homes of the Cub Scouts". This is what I am trying to do and tag a 9 yr old scout along behind the 10 yr. olds one rank ahead. Your answer is the conventional answer and I agree under normal circumstances that is the preferable advancement order. Your answer raises my question: Am I really stepping too far out of line?

[NeilLup]

Maybe I am asleep, but I thought that the age/grade targets were

 

Tiger Cub - 1st Grade, age 6

Wolf - 2nd Grade, age 7

Bear - 3rd Grade, age 8

Webelos I - 4th Grade, age 9

Webelos II - 5th Grade, age 10

Boy Scout - 6th Grade, age 11

 

Then you need to make some decisions. One option is to have your son participate with the Webelos II den. Another possibility is to have him participate in another Webelos I den with you having some involvement in that den but less than you might like. A third possibility might be for you to have full involvement in the Webelos I den but a reduced involvement with your older son in the Webelos II den.

 

It is admirable that you want to be actively involved with each son, etc. but you do need to keep your business running, sleep occasionally etc. Is it better for your younger son to be involved with the Webelos II den with you there, or to be involved with a den of people more his speed with you there less of the time? Really only you can answer that. But, with the most sincere respect, may I suggest that your primary consideration might be what is best for your son rather than doing what you want which is to be fully involved with each boy.

[CubScoutJo]

I think the most important consideration for keeping him in the Bear Den is something that would happen that you mentioned in your first post: "...he loses the group identity of being in a den of his peers". Instead, he will be your older son's little brother in the den of Webelos. This could be detrimental to both the older AND the younger son.

 

My younger son was also was held back. He is now 11 and a Webelos 2, so he also was 9 when he was a Bear. And, like your son, he has an older brother who is two grades ahead of him in school. Keeping him with his grade-mates eliminated any embarrassing questions that may have been asked had we put him in a den of fourth graders when he was only in third grade. No one really knows how old he is. Also, three of his den-mates are in his same class in school now and that makes it nice for them to get to meet and work together on Den meeting night. During den meetings, they talk about their teacher, what's going on at school, etc.

 

Keeping him with his grade-mates also gave him the chance to "SHINE" with his own den. He was not compared to his older brother.. he had his own friends and his own "gang" to hang out with at Pack events. Conversely, his older brother had his own friends in his den, as well, without having little brother around.

 

Another reason for not trying to rush him up to Webelos is that the Webelos Rank is a bit more involved than the lower ranks. Some of the required activity badges such as fitness and citizen require a good amount study, writing and keeping track of things over a period of a month that he may or may not be ready for.

 

Are there leaders for both the Webelos II den and the Bear Den or are you the leader for one of them? If there is another leader of at least one of the dens, I agree with the previous poster that you could limit your involvement with that den temporarily (until your oldest crosses over to Boy Scouts). You can still be involved at the pack level for both sons, volunteering for pack outings, etc. And you can still be involved with both sons, helping them with requirements at home, which is especially important in the Bear rank.

 

At the Webelos level, in preparation for Boy Scouts, more activities are done with the den and signed off by the leader, so maybe that is the den you could let be run by another leader, with you stepping in to lead the Bear Den. Or does your pack have a requirement that all parents must attend every den meeting (I know some packs do have that).

 

If I were in your shoes, I think the only way I would bend the rules slightly and put him in a Webelos Den as a third grader is if otherwise, my son would be the only Bear in the pack.

 

CubScoutJo

 

[ScoutNut]

From the BSA Cub Scout Youth Application:

 

Cub ScoutMust have completed first

grade, but not completed third grade,

or be age 8 or 9.

 

Webelos ScoutMust have completed

third grade, but has not completed fifth

grade, or be age 10, but not yet 11 1⁄2.

 

 

From BSA National website - Fact Sheets - "What is Cub Scouting":

 

Tiger Cub. The Tiger Cub program is for first-grade (or age 7) boys and their adult partners.

 

Wolf. The Wolf program is for boys who have completed first grade (or are age 8).

 

Bear. The Bear rank is for boys who have completed second grade (or are age 9).

 

Webelos. This program is for boys who have completed third grade (or are age 10).

 

Your 9 year old son CAN NOT be a Webelos.

 

Are you stepping too far out of line? In a word, YES. I (& I'm sure your sons) appreciate the fact that you want to be involved in both of your sons Scouting activities. However, changing the BSA Program into the garygarrison2003 program is not the way to do it.

 

There are many ways to be involved with your son's in the Scouting program. You do not HAVE to be a Den Leader. You do not HAVE to be involved in ALL of their activities. In the Wolf & Bear Dens, MOST of their rank achievements are supposed to be done at home with their family. Den meetings are supposed to be for the boys to get ready for the monthly Pack meetings. In reality, however, many Den Leaders pick some of the Rank Achievements to complete during Den meetings & let the families know what acheivements they must complete at home.

 

How large is your Pack? Do they have Den leaders for each level? How involved are you currently in your Pack? Are you a Den Leader for your older son's Webelos Den? If you are, then you know that Webelos is NOT like Tiger, Wolf & Bear. Parents are no longer Akela's. They do NOT sign off on everything anymore. The Den Leader, Specialist in charge of teaching an activity pin (which COULD be a parent, but is not necessarialy one), or whoever the Den Leader assigns, is who signs off requirements as having been completed.

 

Sign up your younger son in your Pack's Bear Den. Drop him off at the Den meetings & do not stay. Come back & pick him up when the meeting is over. Sit down with your younger son & go over his Bear Handbook with him at home. Work with him on his Bear Achievements at home, sign off on them in his book, & let his Den Leader know what has been signed off. You will be involved in your son's Scouting without it taking excess time each week. If you have any extra time you can volunteer to help at a specific Den activity, help at a Pack meeting, or help teach the Den a specific topic you are very familiar with or interested in. This can be as little or as much time as you want to spend, but your son then gets to have his OWN individual Scouting experience.

 

 

[garygarrison2003]

Thank each of you for taking the time to address this. You have convinced me to start the younger one in a Bear den. It will complicate things such that I won't go into but maybe we can make it work. I must agree with the practical argument that it is in the best interest of the younger son to start him as a Bear. I also do not intend to try to do something outside of the rules. At first I thought the age/grade guideline would allow my plan but I am now convinced I am attempting something outside of the guidelines. The resource I was using to support my plan is the National Council Publication "Improved Webelos Transition" at the web site noted in my former post. I now believe the reference to the 9 year age for Webelos eligibility would apply to a 9 year old in the fourth grade and not a 9 year old in the third grade. I think I am trying to step too far out of line. Thank you for helping me clarify this.