Appropriate Questions at BOR

[OldGreyEagle]

IF a BOR turns down a scout based on Scout Spirit, after the Scoutmaster has signed off on that requirement, you have trouble, right here in River City, that starts with T and it rhymes with B, and that stands for a BOR which does not know their place in the scouting advancement procedure.

 

How did the scoutmaster handle being told he doesnt know the boy as well as you guys?

 

 

[fgoodwin]

OK, now I'm confused -- forgive me, because I was never a Boy Scout, and as my son is just now in the process of advancing to Tenderfoot (passed his SM conference, still waiting for his BOR), I have to ask:

 

What are the respective roles of the SM and the BOR in advancing a Scout? I know its gospel that the BOR not "retest" the boy. So what kinds of questions are they allowed to ask?

 

How does the BOR do its job without stepping on the toes of the SM?

[evmori]

The reason I ask "Do you believe in God?" at the beginning of the BOR is so we don't string the Scout along if he doesn't believe in God.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Fred, check this link, its identical to the BSA Advancement Policies and Procedures Book.

 

http://www.meritbadge.com/info/policy4.htm

 

NOTE: remember the question when does advancement take place? From the same section:

 

When a boy satisfactorily completes his board of review for a rank or an Eagle Palm, tenure for his next rank or Eagle Palm begins immediately.

 

[NIscouter]

OGE - I got this reference from another forum quoting from the national advancement committee - it is a bit old (1998) but I think it still applies today.

 

"The review is not an examination; the board does not retest the Scout. Rather, the board should attempt to determine the Scout's attitude and his acceptance of Scouting's ideals. Scout spirit is defined as living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in a

Scout's everyday life. The board should make sure that good standards have been met in all phases of the Scout's life. A discussion of the Scout Oath and Law is in keeping with the purpose of the review, to make sure that the candidate recognizes and understands the value of Scouting in his home, unit, school and community."

 

The BoR is to intended to make sure that the scout has learned and is ready for advancement. In our case, the boy was not ready and did meet the good standards in the area of scout spirit. That does not mean the SM (I am not sure it was him) was right or wrong in signing off the boy (in fact his mom tried to sign off the scout spirit :>) but the boy needed to understand his goal of getting to Eagle was dependant on him working on his behavior to live by the oath and law. He still is a pill, but we have hope that his dedication to being an Eagle can be a tool to help him mature into a great young man.

 

 

 

[NIscouter]

I reviewed the link provided by OGE (posted as I was preparing my last post here) and noted it indicated the scout should take responsibility for not completing the requirements properly. I think OGEs question of how to address the SM applies to any reason the BoR doesn't pass a scout who is not ready to advance.

[Hunt]

I have no trouble with a BOR asking questions about Scout spirit or about the oath and law. my problem is with asking a question that suggests the scout has lied to the person who signed off his Scout Spirit requirement, if you have no reason to think he did so. It's offensive. "Do you believe in God" is not "just a question." A similar question would be, "Did you lie to any of the people who signed off these requirements?" That's very different from asking how the Scout shows trustworthiness in his daily life.

[evmori]

"Do you believe in God" is not "just a question." A similar question would be, "Did you lie to any of the people who signed off these requirements?" That's very different from asking how the Scout shows trustworthiness in his daily life.

 

Two completely different questions. I do not ask the question with the assumption the Scout lied. I ask the question so I know the answer.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Trevorum]

Ed, what do you then say to the Eagle candidate who replies with something along the lines of the following ...

 

"I'm not sure. My beliefs have changed a lot since I first became a Scout. I no longer believe in the Sunday-school God that Reverend Smith talks about, but I think there must be something else to it all, 'cause the universe is a pretty big place. I'm just not sure what the word for it is. But I've been reading about other religions and what they believe."

[evmori]

Then I ask "When you say the Scout Oath you pledge to do your duty to God. Are you doing that?"

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Trevorum]

"Well, Mr. Mori, I've always thought that was a little vague. Justin, who is a Catholic, says that 'Duty to God' means that he has to, like, go to Mass every Sunday and go to catechism class on Saturdays and say grace at every meal and lots of other stuff he has to do. Mark, who is a ... I don't remember what he is, but he says his 'Duty to God' can be like, just quietly meditating plus doing volunteer stuff like helping out at the homeless shelter or stuff like that. So I guess that 'Duty to God' depends on who you are, huh?. So I guess, yeah, I do my 'Duty to God'. I am respectful of all living creatures and that's very important to me and my family. And I read a lot and try to improve myself - my mom says that God's greatest gift is the human mind and that a mind is a terrible thing to waste. So, yes, I do my duty."

[evmori]

That is an excellent answer!

[Trevorum]

paraphrased (obviously) from a recent conversation I had with a Scout ... I thought so, too.

[evmori]

I, too, had a similar conversation.

[NeilLup]

Hello Ed,

 

With sincere respect, I believe that your question "Do you believe in God?" at the beginning of a Board of Review is much the same as asking "Are you gay?" It is an extremely aggressive and, in my opinion, non friendly way of introducing a topic which can be highly personal to the youth and his family and on which there is significant controversy within society and among Scout leaders.

 

As was mentioned if the boy were Buddhist, or Hindu, or believed in some of the American Indian religions, he would answer "no." Yet there are religious awards for Buddhists and Hindus approved by the BSA.

 

You have written that you have no Buddhists in your unit. Again, with respect, you have no Buddhists that you know about. There may be some boys who are considering alternative religious and who can't even tell their parents. I know that in some parts of the country and in some families if a boy does not loudly proclaim that he accepts Jesus Christ as his personal savior then he is anathema. Yet that does not mean that the boy is not searching.

 

You may be setting up a terrible conflict between "A Scout is Trustworthy" and "A Scout is Reverent." If the boy is questioning religion, particularly privately, and he says what he knows he is supposed to say "Yes, I believe in God." he may feel that he is not telling the truth. Yet if he answers honestly, he may feel that it will get him expelled from Scouting and possibly set up a serious conflict in his family. This is a tremendously difficult situation, particularly if the boy is not particularly articulate as many preadolescent and adolescent boys are not.

 

To be blunt, is the purpose in your question to root out those atheists and make sure that they don't get any foothold in Scouting or is it to help a boy in his spiritual journey and to help him to integrate religion into Scouting and into his life? I have been trained that if it is the latter, asking the question "How do you honor the 12th point of the Scout Law?" is the preferred way of introducing and discussing the topic. It allows him to say as much or as little as he chooses. It ensures that there is some belief in a higher power but doesn't force the issue. And it is in line with the extremely broad interpretation that the BSA has of "A Scout is Reverent."