Paper Eagle

[SFmike]

There are a number of Eagle Scouts that I have encountered who are fine, knowledgable Eagle Scouts and there are some who are "Paper Eagles".

 

One of these, "Wes", came to our troop as a 16 year old Second Class Scout from his fourth troop. His dad immediately offered himself as an ASM. Dad was told to complete "Fast Start" and "Adult Leader Training" and then we would talk to him about being an ASM.

 

Wes had a session on knots that first night and completed his last requirement for First Class. He asked about merit badges and was given a council merit badge counselors list and an explaination of how to make an appointment with a counselor. Wes was placed into a Patrol where he immediately talked the 12 year old Patrol Leader into making him an Assistant Patrol Leader.

 

Many of the boys in the troop attended a week long Council JLT Camp at the beginning of the Summer, but not Wes. Wes did go to Summer Camp with the troop but spent his time earning merit badges (7) and sleeping in a tent by himself. Every meeting, Wes would turn in blue cards for merit badges that his Mom or Dad signed off. (They had registered with the council as MBCs.)

 

Wes was elected as Patrol Leader and later as SPL. He eventually fulfilled the requirements for Eagle Scout and when it was awarded, he immediately quit the troop and he and his Dad, formed another troop in another community.

 

Meanwhile, the older boys from our troop along with other youth formed a Venturing Crew of seven females and 5 males. (All five of the males were Eagle Scouts.)

 

The Venturing crew was on a high adventure weekend outing at a National Guard training base, climbing an obstacle on the confidence course when Wes and six Boy Scouts, accompanied by 8 Webelos came onto the course.

 

Wes started making fun of the female Venturers and laughing at the males for being "saddled with girls".

 

Rebecca, went to Wes and offered up a challenge. If Wes would organize a patrol of five Scouts and get them to the top of a five story obstacle faster than she could take the female Venturers up the same obstacle, than she and all of the females would go home. If not, then Wes would have to leave the area and keep his mouth shut.

 

Becky gave Wes a 120 foot climbing rope and five swiss seats and carabiners. Wes needed instruction on how to tie a swiss seat and Rebecca showed the Boy Scouts. When they were ready to go, Becky inspected the Swiss Seats and found that Wes had tied a "Granny" knot instead of a square knot. Once this was corrected Wes and his patrol started to climb the obsatcle. This particular obstacle has five stories, starting at five foot six inches and getting six inches higher on each story.

 

Wes and his patrol managed four stories in 90 minutes and came down without attempting the fifth story. Rebecca, Jamie, Debbi, Jenn and Liz went up the entire five stories in 18 minutes. Teamwork and practice had a lot to do with it.

 

Can you imagine an Eagle Scout who couldn't tie a square knot? Paper Eagle

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Maybe he is just shy around girls, or dumbstruck that a girl could tie a swiss seat

 

Good luck to your girls, the adventure continues

[Region 7 Voyageur]

I have doubts about the veracity of this story. I suspect that this is a story made up to spur silly arguments between us about subjects that have already been argued.

 

Lets see:

 

16 year old Second Class ScoutWhat has he been doing in his first four troops?

 

Adult who needs to get trained before they can be registered?

 

What happened to the existing Assistant Patrol Leader?

 

How does a Scout that only made it to Second Class then earn seven merit badges at summer camp while sleeping in his tent?

 

This Scout seems to have impressed the other members of the troop enough to be elected SPL.

 

This Scout went from Second Class to Eagle in less than 24 months?

 

A climbing course on a National Guard Base being used by Scouts?

 

Is the paper eagle now an adult leader or does the climbing story take place before he turns 18?

 

Webelos climbing? Has our paper eagle read G2SS?

 

Five story obstacle? Qualified supervision? Age appropriate activity?

 

I have noticed several posts by new posters that spark controversy between us while the original poster stays out of the conversation. Hmmmm?

 

[evmori]

True or not there are "Paper Eagles" out there. Maybe not to this extreme but there are Scouts who want to be an Eagle without doing the work.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[EagleWB]

A swiss seat does not end with a square knot, but does end with a water knot.

[scoutldr]

You'd be amazed at the number of scouts who appear at their Eagle BOR and can't recite the Scout Oath and Law. Nervousness? I hope so. Yeah, that must be it...nervousness.

[KoreaScouter]

How does one define a paper Eagle -- as one whose leaders allowed him to take shortcuts to get there, or as one who earned it, then quit? I'm not defending either, but it seems to me that we're beating the wrong horse if we blame the Scout for corner-cutting -- it can't happen unless adults sign off. Frankly, I've got a bigger problem with the latter case, in which the boy begins mailing it in the day after his COH, or worse yet, you never see him again. At every COH I've seen, the Eagle Charge is read, and the Scout knows what's expected of him. To walk away from that, not repaying Scouting for what one received, is the greater sin in my opinion.

 

KS

[emb021]

Most people use the term "paper Eagle" to refer to boys who are Eagle on paper. They got all the paperwork in (blue cards, etc.), but they aren't an Eagle in were it counts: in their hearts and minds, and rarely have even the basic scouting skills down. Typically, if one looks closer, you might find out that mommie/daddie made sure all the paperwork got done, even to the point of signing off on merit badges its doubtful he really earned.

 

The issue of boys who are working for Eagle, and then quit afterwards is a different issue. Typically they (usually thanks to their parents) see Eagle as the goal, not a point on their journey. They are usually trying to get Eagle because it 'help them get into school', 'get them a scholarship', or the like.

 

 

[isvirtual]

My son and I are involved in a troop that has an excellent program for first year boys combined with a strong advancement program. The Boys have lots of exposure to learn and use the skills as they are earning their Eagle.

 

The downside is scouting seems to lose its appeal about the time the scout hits High School. Sure the Eagle Charge talks about giving back, but it doesn't say the boy should skip school, band, sports, clubs, socializing, and all the other demands on his time.

 

What advice can I give my son and the other boys who are older (some are Eagles) and don't feel the troop has much left to offer them?

[OldGreyEagle]

You could ask the boys what THEY want to do, what activities woud charge them up. They could form a Venture Patrol and do stuff that the "little guys" cant. This gives the older guys somehting to do they like plus it helps give incentive to the younger scouts to stay and do that kind of stuff when they get older. Remember, a Troop should have three distinct areas of its program, New Scouts, the middle phase I cant remember,and the Veteran scouts

 

I may have made some names up, but by the time the scouts are in high school, the troop should allow a good deal of the older scout proram to be run by, well the scouts. Wait, this boy run stuff could get out of hand

[Eamonn]

Hi KS,

I was with you all the way until :

"To walk away from that, not repaying Scouting for what one received, is the greater sin in my opinion."

I don't think that there is or should be any expectation of any kind of pay back in Scouting.

If we have done a good job we will have helped meet the mission of Scouting (BSA).

I know that when I sit on the BOR for some Eagle Scouts candidates, I do hope that one day they will return and serve in some way.

While there are some youth members who do manage to stay involved in Scouting either through the OA or Venturing. We as an organization don't offer the 18 or 21 year old college student or young worker very much.

Eamonn

 

 

 

[mdutch]

Eamonn,

What I think KS was refering to was those who get eagle at like age 15 and then are never seen in the troop or any other BSA function again.(This message has been edited by meamemg)

[KoreaScouter]

Yup, that's exactly what I meant. It isn't over at the COH; or at least, it isn't supposed to be. Isn't our mission to prepare young men to make ethical decisions over their lifetimes? The period of time between their Eagle COH and their 18th birthday is part of their lifetime. And, what better immediate opportunity to imprint on both the Eagle Scout and the other Scouts in the Troop what is meant by volunteering, by the notion "giving something back"? Sure, that lad may come back later as an adult and volunteer in his son's unit, and many certainly do, to their credit. What's lost, though, is the teaching moment in his Troop, 15 years earlier, when that newly-minted Eagle Scout doesn't throttle back, doesn't drift away, doesn't just disappear...what he does is stay involved, doing the same things for younger Scouts that older Scouts did for him a few years before. When that happens, a leader has an opportunity to point out the altruism there. It's important; without those early examples, we miss out on an early opportunity to develop tomorrow's church deacons, sports coaches, volunteer firefighters, and so on.

 

When a boy earns Eagle and disappears (especially if he's got time left before he ages out), the subliminal message to everyone else is that this is ultimately a "me first" thing, and it's okay to get what you want and then walk away...consider the implications.

 

KS

[Fuzzy Bear]

The term paper Eagle implies that a young person has not involved himself in the program. I have doubted that a person could miss the SM conferences, the leadership roles, the campouts, the hikes, the Scout meetings and all of the interaction and just simply be signed off for a badge. But again, I have known two young Eagles that became thieves within a few months of their last COH. They both stole from their adult leaders and both were found out. I guess they decided that they wanted to take something back from Scouting instead of giving. In both cases, their punishment was simply to pay back their thefts. Nothing else was done. They are still Eagles. One is now in prison for other thefts and the other was sent far away to college. These Scouts were not in my Troop but in the District where I was the D.C. and was involved in some of the proceedings. I do know that both had parents or relatives that intervened for them, protected them when they got into trouble, bailed them out at all costs, and held them to no particular standard. They both appeared to not be able to stand on their own without someone propping them up. Both got very little out of Scouting in the way of personal growth and that failure is a shame.

 

The majority of Eagle Scouts that I have known have become good citizens and they have given back to the community, their families and even to Scouting. I am happy to have known so many young Eagles. Their involvement has brought meaning into their lives and they have something meaningful to share wherever they go in life. I don't ask or expect any of them to return to Scouting because life is full of opportunities and I believe that it is our job to prepare them. I have noted that many do return to Scouting and for that I feel thankful and quietly proud.

 

 

 

FB(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

[stlscouter]

As an Eagle Board chair, I know that our reviewers,if it hasn't been mentioned in their written statement of life purpose and ambition will often ask how the young man sees his role scouting after attaining

Eagle-most but certainly not all are enthusiastically looking forward to "giving back to the program" or at least want to help those coming behind to make it to Eagle also. Sadly there are also those who have no clue as to the help the progarm needs from them. My hope is that they will come back to the progam at a later time and pick up the challenge and carry on the traditions.