BOR unable to fail an unqualified Scout

[AwHeck]

Do adults sign off on a majority of requirements in most troops? In our troop, the requirements for Tenderfoot, 2nd class, and 1st class are signed off by a scout who is himself at least 1st class. The only ones NOT signed by as scout are Scout Spirit (discussed at the SM conference). Sometimes the Advancement chair will sign off on the "participate in 5 troop activities" or 10 activities if troopmaster shows it as complete and he hasn't had a scout sign that off yet.

 

When I sit on 1st class BORs I always ask about what the troop will expect of him should we grant the rank. I also specifically ask about signing off on a requirement for a friend if he hasn't quite completed the task... I have always gotten the response I want for that question. I usually follow up with something that leads him to tell me that it ties in to "A Scout is Trustworthy". Interestingly, this led to the first time I ever postponed a rank - I was trying to get a scout to say this and tried leading him by mentioning the Scout Law... his response was "I don't know the Scout Law" ... needless to say the BOR members unanimously agreed that he couldn't achieve rank until he knew the law.

[evmori]

OGE,

Good point! I'm gonna make an assumption here (don't like doing this) that the ASM feels that if he/she asks the Scout if he know the requirement & the Scout says "Yes", then the book gets signed. If this is the case, the ASM needs some serious work.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dan]

ASM?

Lets put this the blame where it belongs, the Scoutmaster, followed by the CC, than the Advancement Chair.

 

This scout has done nothing wrong!

[frank10]

Sounds to me like today is a fine day to kick the SM's butt for allowing this! Please do it now.

 

Don't wait until this young man is in the hot seat. Do you really want to drop this on him like that? Are you looking to save him or to punish him? He should know on the way into the BOR what standard he will be held to.

[LPC_Thumper]

Hi,

 

AwHeck brings up an interesting point, and I'm not convinced that s/he even knows it.

 

 

[acco40]

According to the SM handbook (I'm paraphrasing) the Scouts "leaders" may sign off on requirements. Now, the SM is usually the gate keeper for who qualifies as a leader. His PL? The SPL or ASPL? Any SA? The SM? Committee members? I've had non-registered adults, such as teachers, come in and work on requirements with the boys (e.g. 1st Class req. 5 Visit and discuss with a selected individual approved by your leader (elected official, judge, attorney, civil servant, principal, teacher) your constitutional rights and obligations as a U.S. citizen.) and allowd them to sign off on that specific requirement. No blanket rule states that committee members may not sign off.

 

[orennoah]

Vrooman-

 

In my humble opinion, you've got a heck of a problem, way beyond a single Scout whose mother is doing his work for him.

 

My troop was created from the ashes of a troop that was destroyed by just this sort of thing, adult "leaders" whose only goal was to advance their sons, regardless of whether the work was done or how it affected anyone else in the troop.

 

Let unchecked, this situation will only worsen and can hurt everyone in the troop. You already mentioned that one senior Scout left, because of the flagrant favoritism.

 

Please do what you must to correct things.

 

Because of the experience many in my troop had in the former troop, I refuse to sign anything off in my son's book. The only exception is on merit badges, and then only when my son is simply part of a group of Scouts working on the same merit badge. I had a sign that I'm successfully avoiding any show of favoritism last week, when a Scout asked my son, his patrol leader, how well he knew me. The Scout didn't realize that I was anything more than "Scoutmaster" to him.

 

- Oren

[Fuzzy Bear]

I am sure the BSA has already made this film clip, so let me review.

 

BOR, "Scout, tell us about cooking for your Patrol?"

 

Scout, "I cooked eggs one day for my family. My Mom figured it was close enough."

 

BOR, "That is not what the requirement states. We ask only for you to do the things as they are written in the book."

 

Scout, "I guess there was a misunderstanding. I would do well to do some of these over."

 

BOR, "Good idea Scout. We hope to see you again soon."

 

Later,

 

Mom, "BOR person, I am mad because my son said you failed him. He did the requirements and I watched him."

 

BOR person, "We only ask that the Scout complete the requirements as stated in the book. Would you like to review what is stated and what your son said he did?"

 

Mom, "Oh, you mean for him to do exactly what the book states? I didn't understand it that way. I guess I need more training."

 

BOR person, "There is one coming up. Would you like to go?"

 

Mom, "Sure."

 

BOR person, "I haven't been in a while myself. Let's go together and we both may pick up a few pointers."

 

Everyone walks away with bright smiles.

 

 

FB

 

 

 

[evmori]

Fuzzy,

Nice conversation. Too bad it isn't realistic.

 

dan,

The Scout is also in the "blame" column. He know what the requirements are. Everyone is at fault here. And it needs to be stopped ASAP.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dan]

Why does it not amaze me that you would try to hold a scout to higher values than adults.

[Vicki]

Dan, I don't see where Ed is holding the Scout to a higher set of values than the adults. Perhaps the same set - I agree with him, everyone has some accountability here. The scout is capable of reading the requirement and knowing what it is. He also knows when others have done it and he has not.

 

Vicki

[evmori]

Why does it not amaze me that you would try to hold a scout to higher values than adults.

 

If you are referring to me, dan, I don't think you understand. I hold the Scout to the same values I hold the adult to. Not higher. Equal.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[vrooman]

Oren,

 

I fear that you are right about this issue being a major concern. Our troop has been becoming more and more divided recently. As the CC I have been dealing with the SM directly sending him back through training and working with him on trying to keep the troop from decreasing in membership. I realize that all these recent efforts have been too late in coming though, we are now down to four members from over 13 a year and a half ago. The boys have been subjected to double standards and situations such as the one I have here.

 

One such case involved a 1-mile compass course that was for one of our now ex-members that traversed some of the most rugged terrain including cliffs and steep drop offs(he didnt have to traverse the cliffs). He was unable to complete this course. Later the SM created a course that covered the nice streets in the town, and was quite simple, but this was done exclusively for his son and one other chosen boy. I actually found out about this secret course by accident, the boys were walking by my house and I just simply asked how they were doing, and the story was revealed.

 

I realize what must be done, I know that if the scout tells me that he didnt meet the requirement as described in the Scout Handbook, we cannot provide him the rank. If I end up being the only outspoken member of the BOR, I may end up having to resign because of possible pressures from the SM and two other adults who follow the philosophy promoted by the SM. Who knows, perhaps Vicki is right, maybe the other MCs sitting on the BOR would be in agreement, but I have seen first hand what our SMs personality can do, so I might be the dissenting opinion in this case

 

Vrooman

[PNScouter]

vrooman,

 

I agree with most of the comments regarding the BOR problem. I would add that the best way to get through the problem is to show the scout how he has not completed the requirement(s) and get him to request a postponement of the BOR. The board does not have to fail him and the scout can then take responsibility to complete the requirements.

 

As far as your example of the compass course, it sounds to me as I read your post that the SM was providing an oportunity for two scouts to succeed in a compass course. The requirment does not specifiy what the difficulty of the course should be.

 

Be careful in how you deal with your SM. Look for win win situations. Suggest ways to improve the program in a postive way. There are a lot of things going on in your troop that need to be addressd. Do not expect to change them all at once.

 

Good Luck,

 

Pete

[vrooman]

Pete,

 

You are right; all I want is for each scout to do their best completing each of the requirements necessary for the rank. I honestly dont care how difficult the SPL or SM make it, I just want the scout to feel they accomplished the requirement. Once they show they know how to do it, and demonstrate it to the leader who knows what the handbook requires, they get that signed off. At the BOR, I only ask if they did the requirement, I dont ask if they were in a mountainous area with cliffs, drop-offs, thick brush and ponds. Or if they were in a large parking lot to do the compass course, I just want to know if they completed the requirement. Scouts who say well I was there when whats his name did it, or I was shown how to do something dont really meet the requirement.

 

I also want to maintain my friendship with our SM, but seeing what is happening to the boys, and the complaints I am getting from most of the parents is putting quite a lot of strain on everyone. Working with three separate boards with three separate groups I see all sorts of conflict between adults, but I dont like to see it effect the kids. I know that change must happen, and I agree, it needs to be slow and considerate of everyone.

 

Vrooman