To early eagle or not to early eagle

[OneHour]

Need advice on this one.

 

We have about 4-6 Life scouts who just got their Life and they are about 12.5 years old. They all came in together and they push each other to get where they are. My son happens to be one of them.

 

Two other parents in the troop who have sons who are eagles adviced me to counsel the Life scouts to consider not finishing their eagle rank before entering high school (that's about 1.25 year away). They indicated that if the boys want their Eagle achievement to be counted on high school transcript then it has to occur during high school year.

 

This is not adding nor deleting requirement from the eagle requirements, but it might be slowing a process that these young men have done a fantastic job of pushing each other! I'm torn. With the competitiveness of today's college application, an Eagle rank does allow the candidate to stand out. On the other hand, these boys may loose their interest if too much steam is being let out. Yes, the Eagle rank is not the end that justifies the mean and the whole scouting experience is all that the boys should be appreciating, but these boys from all appearances are very keen on getting the eagle ranking. On the other hand, my concern is that the earlier they obtain their eagles, the higher likelihood that they will "eagle out" if there is no high adventure program to keep them interested (such as the case with our troop).

 

Have you run into this situation? How have you dealt with it? What is your advice? Thank you in advance.

 

1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[Region 7 Voyageur]

Consul the young Life Scouts on learning leadership, responsibility, and service. Help them to really learn from working on merit badges, their position of responsibility, and their leadership project. In no way hold them back.

 

It seems that parents of Eagle Scouts that finished just short of their 18th birthday are more inclined to think that becoming Eagle at any younger age is too young. Though this may not be backed by actual fact I have listened to many parents that think this way.

 

I have never heard this thing about affecting the high school transcript.

 

[acco40]

My oldest son earned his Life rank four months after turning 12. He is now four months shy of 15 and a Life Scout! I neither sped him up early on nor slowed him down later on. Right now he is an Eagle project and about two merit badges away from earning Eagle. Knowing my son, another 17.999 yr old Eagle will getting his wings in about three years! :-)

[dsteele]

This line really threw me:

 

" (the parents referenced in the first post)They indicated that if the boys want their Eagle achievement to be counted on high school transcript then it has to occur during high school year. "

 

That dog don't hunt. Eagle Scout doesn't show up on transcripts. It may show up on a college application, but only because it is the Eagle Scout who fills out the application. Whether he earns Eagle as a 13 year old or as a 16 or 18 year old, he can still list it on his college application, and his resume later in life.

 

If the boy's own parents are concerned he is earning the badge at an age they consider too young, they should counsel their own child and not try to drag you into it.

 

The leaders of the troop and the leadership of the district have an obligation to follow the advancement policies and procedures of the Boy Scouts of America and I applaud you for doing it.

 

I have to admit that the can't earn it until high school for it to show up on his transcripts is a new one to me.

 

Unc.

 

[OneHour]

Hey Unc., thanks, point well taken. I have not verified the fact about high school transcript. acco40 is correct, the scout will dictate his own course of action soon enough. Some will procrastinate until the very end while others will whiz through it as with anything else in their lives. Great suggestions! I'll just let the boys dictate their own course of actions and advice their parents accordingly. In the mean time, SM conference to keep them on course if they deviate.

 

Thanks,

 

1Hour

 

ps: by the way, you are correct. It was one of the parents who is very keen on his son's academic success who actually ask the original question. His son is in GT (gifted and talented) and is taking Algebra in 7th grade amongst other courses! Such stress at such a young age.

[KoreaScouter]

I don't think we should be acting as "human restrictor plates", trying to slow Scouts' advancement because of parental agendas. Many Scouts age-out due to procrastination and other factors, but what's too early? Every boy is different, with different interests, opportunities, and motivations. Some have many extracurriculars, extra family responsibilities, or have to work harder at school to get decent grades...or what have you. On the other hand, some boys and their families make Scouting a family activity, at the exclusion of other discretionary activities. Guess which ones are likely to advance faster and farther? We all set goals and make decisions -- even not deciding is a decision, too.

 

This topic in various forms has come up before, and I just don't understand it. Everything I've ever been taught about Scouting advancement refers to the notion that "...the trail to Eagle can take one of many paths...", or "...in Scouting, a boy is only competing with himself...". Yet, there seem to be many adults who think this should take place on some sort of timetable; sort of like boot camp: everybody enters the pipeline at one end, and squirts out the other end after a prescribed period of time.

 

Besides, unless some adults are cooking the books, no Scout will earn his Eagle before he's ready for it. The leadership, service, and MB requirements virtually guarantee that. If adults have cooked the books, don't blame the Scout for that, look at the leaders.

 

It's funny, we encourage the boys to learn about and understand what made America great; in part, personal liberties, freedoms, rewards based on how hard you work, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, etc. Our advancement program ties right in with those values. Yet, in this context, many of us seem to want to apply an Eastern, sort of Confucian philosophy: "...the nail that sticks up gets hammered down...". I saw that repeatedly in my years living in Asia, and while you get a more compliant, homogenous society that way, you also lose a lot of innovation and creativity.

 

Let's apply that logic to another situation. In a copy of the Eagletter my son just received, all the NESA scholarship recipients were highlighted inside. The $48,000 scholarship recipient (forgive me, I don't recall his name) had listed in his biography that he has earned every Merit Badge that BSA offers. You don't do that by accident; you set a goal and work your tail off. Would anyone tell him he earned too many Merit Badges? We all get just 24 hours in a day; certainly, he had to forego other personal interests to reach his goal. Does he deserve criticism or scrutiny because of how he set his priorities? If not, then why critique the Scout who sets a goal to earn his Eagle, focuses on it, and achieves it, regardless of his age when he does so?

 

KS

[LPC_Thumper]

I want to add my 2 cents worth here...

 

First, how early is too early for Eagle? It would be too early if the young man were afraid to direct the work on thr project. To provide the LEADERSHIP it requires. To follow up with his peers to ensure his work parties are just that... work and fun. How old is that? I've seen 15 year olds sit for BoR that were ready, and 18 year olds that weren't... so age has NOTHING to do with it.

 

The story of my son (the 4th generation Eagle Scout in the family) was that he made Life 4 days past the minimum time limit, and then spent 3.5 years working on Eagle. He had time to earn a palm, but he earned both ranks. I didn't plant my foot in his seat and push him up the hill. (There were times I had to walk away and bite my lip, but I let him do his thing)

 

There were college applications that asked him if he was an Eagle Scout, that's true, but all they asked was, "Is he one?" They didn't seem to care when it was earned. These applications also asked about leadership opportunities, and service involvement. I understand from another young man that the Service Academies ask for date of Eagle. But I don't think they throw it out if it's during Junior High, rather than High School.

 

I would have your parents slow these boys, if that's what they want to do, but I would also caution, that in my case had I slowed my son down, I wonder if he would have made it? Just a thought...

[OldGreyEagle]

An Scout should be the age he is when he completes the requirements to acheive the Eagle rank. For some its 13, for others its 17 years, 364 days, 365 if its leap year. No Scout earns Eagle "too" young. If a scout wears an Eagle patch because his Troop fudged him through, it says volumes more about the Troop than the scout himself. And just because someone thinks scout A got Eagle way too early, its not grounds to put up artificial barriers to "be sure" future Eagles really know there stuff. As one poster is fond of saying, if you follow the program, things just seem to work out, or something like that, think of this as a paraphrase.

 

Let them all earn Eagle as soon as they earn Eagle, let them collect palms until their uniforms wear heavy with them. Let them collect memories that will last a lifetime

[Hunt]

Some parents have a tendency to see "Eagle Scout" as a check-off item for the college application, and may convey to the Scout that getting Eagle is the goal of being in Scouts. The parents who are concerned about the timing may be in this category. It should be explained to these parents that advancement is only part of Scouting, and that it's not the goal. (I have to remind my wife of this fairly often.)

[SR540Beaver]

I like others here believe that each boy is individual and some are capable of advancing quickly while others are not for a wide variety of reasons. Not to be a wet blanket, but I have an uneasy feeling when I see everyone advancing at the same pace and you have 6 or 7 guys all making Life at 12.5. I don't know the particulars in these boy's case, but it sounds like they are taught and tested at the same time and attend merit badge fairs together. There is nothing wrong with that as long as they are really doing the work and not being rubber stamped for "doing their best" like Cubs. I've seen kids and their parents try to get requirements signed off because they have done "that" before a year or so ago. What you did a year ago in school or as a Webelos doesn't count for meeting a requirement for advancement or for a MB. It needs to be done while working on the rank or MB. There are leaders who are very tough on meeting the requirements and leaders who are very soft on meeting the requirments. Some want to see mastery of the skill or knowledge and others count it if you set thru a demonstration. Guess which ones will be better scouts in the long run? I believe an exceptional boy can earn Eagle at 13. Rare, but possible. I'm suspect when a whole group of boys do it all together because it smacks of being run thru the mill.

[EagleInKY]

Wow, what a great series of posts. There's nothing about arbitrary policies, unit "requirements" or anything of the sort... just good common sense.

 

I echo the sentiments of many of these postings. In my experience, I have seen three ways that a boy has made Eagle early. These three ways are:

 

1) The boy is truly a gifted, talented, motivated lad who loves scouting and thrives on success and advancement. He is a leader in his troop and advances rapidly through the ranks.

 

2) As Beaver indicated, the troop uses the Cub Scout "Do Your Best" approach and sign off a lot of things as a group. While you can get away with this on some of the early requirements (know the patrol name, give the yell, pitching a tent, etc.), it is dreadfully wrong to do it on Merit Badges and later requirements.

 

3) The troop is an Eagle Mill. I know of a troop that has a dozen or more merit badge classes going on every week during troop meetings. Boys, if they wish, can advance quickly just by putting their mind to it (and ignoring many other facets of scouting).

 

While I am sure there are many of those in the first category, I see far too many in the 2nd and 3rd. Like Beaver, I am suspicious of any group that tracks along side of each other through Life in such a short time. It certainly smells like #2 or #3.

 

But like OGE, I don't hold any of this against the scout. I see it as a reflection of the troop and the priorities of the adults that lead it. I wish more would focus on the total program and not just this one facet.

 

So, let the parents do whatever they want. But don't make it troop "policy" one way or the other. Let the boys do what they want to do, and make sure you are offering a well-rounded BSA program.

 

Good luck, John

[KoreaScouter]

Amen to EagleinKY!

 

I see many Scouts who have group signoffs through First Class, mainly through NSP leadership (we do it), or through FCFY programs at summer camp (we do that, too). That makes sense because they're tying the knots and learning the first aid as a group. However, alarm bells should go off if you're seeing group signoffs on Star, Life, and Eagle requirements.

 

I've also had transfer Scouts who I know came from "Eagle Mill" Troops (I love that term!). I know because they were experienced Scouts who had never seen a Troop Meeting Plan, had no idea what the Handbook said about how to earn a MB, shallow leadership experience, couldn't adapt and make decisions on the fly, and so on. They're flabbergasted when they see SPL-led PLC meetings, with Green Bar program planning, etc. Again, not their fault; that's all they knew.

 

My remaining question: how do you define "early"? Do you draw a continuum from 10 1/2 to 18 and put a vertical line down the middle, and anything before that is early? That's just shy of 14...

 

Maybe anyone who earns their Eagle a month or more before our own sons did made it early.

 

KS

[tortdog]

Since when did schools ask BSA councils for BSA eagle documentation?

 

This sounds absurd.

 

I am in the camp, however, that believes those who receive eagle at 12-13 years likely lack the appreciate/maturity of those who earn it at 16-17. Some 12-year olds will be more mature than the 17-year old.

 

Would I hold a youth back? No. Would that 12-year Eagle appreciate his eagle more if he had earned at at 16? Probably.

 

It is what it is. However, they still have a lot more to earn beyond Eagle (and palms). They have the Denali award and Varsity letter. They have the bronze, gold and silver awards in Venturing...not to mention that cool Ranger award that they didn't offer when I was a youth. So get the Eagle young and move up the program to get the other awards too...in my opinion.

[torribug]

I'm jumping in here a little late, but I want to go back to the original comment that other parents in the troop advised you to counsel the Life scouts to consider not finishing their Eagle rank before entering high school because of entries on their high school transcript.

 

I have heard this comment from parents, too, but in a bit more detail. It's not that the Eagle rank goes on the student's transcript. It's that a lot of high schools now require their students to perform a service project, or at least perform a certain number of community service hours, in order to graduate. So what the parents I have heard are really saying is: "don't do your Eagle project until you're in high school so that the project hours count toward graduation requirements, as well."

 

Bug

[KoreaScouter]

Putting aside the too-early/too-young arguments, I know many high schools expect community service; my son's is one of them. But to buy into the logic that says "wait until HS for your Eagle project" brings with it the assumption that the last community service hours a lad will perform is on his own Eagle project. In my experience, that's not the real world -- read the Eagle charge. Those boys are paying back the investment others made in them by jumping in on other Scouts' projects, and participating in unit level and/or OA projects, too. I suppose there are the Eagles out there who flat-line right after their COHs, but they have to be the exception rather than the rule.

 

One thing I'd ask the wait-until-high-school parents is if their vision of their son's post-Eagle Scouting "career" is early retirement? That's what their comments suggest.

 

KS