Parents MB Counseling their own youth

[Vicki]

EagleinKY wrote >Mom said "Oh, I'm buying the MB books for the badges he was going to take at camp. I'm hoping we can work on them and he can complete them by summer".>

 

Was the implication here that she thought she could sign off on the scout's cards? Or is it more along the lines of trying to get, for example, Camping on your own? Or that he should be doing MBs with another Scout? If so, then I understand your comment. But if it wasn't, then what's wrong with her buying the books? Whenever my son signs up for a MB, we find a MB counselor, he calls and sets up the initial appointment and I go buy the book and we print the sheets from meritbadge.com. My son doesn't read very well (reading disability) so we very often end up reading through at least parts of it together. Then we either discuss or he writes, depending on the requirement. If he is doing it with another Scout (the usual case) the other Scout usually "picks up" faster than my son and, without preparation, it's embarrassing for my son and frustrating for both. No one I've talked to has had a problem with this approach (and I have asked - wanted to get guidelines). He's doing the work, just like schoolwork, I'm just a coach. After he earns the badge, if the requirements haven't changed, the book goes into the troop library.

 

Vicki

[Bob White]

In our troop, there is an unwritten rule. A scoutmaster or a counselor may not work with his/her own son on a one-on-one basis nor sign off requirements for his/her own son."

 

Your unit has no authority to have such a policy. The advancement policies and procedures are determined and controlled by the BSA it is not within the units to make any rules formal or informal. The units job is to follow the program

 

If the mb or requirement is offered and being done in a group basis, then the scoutmaster or counselor can sign off for his/her own son mb, but he/she should defer the testing and signing off rank requirements to SPL, Instructor, or other scoutmasters for his/her own son.

 

You cannot do this with merit badges, others may teach but only the registered and approved counselor can sign.

 

Second, you ask someone who did not actually see or test the scout to sign for the person who did?

 

There is a great lesson in citizenship!

"No your Honor someone else actually witnessed what happened, I just agreed to sign a document saying that I had."

 

If a person is qualified to test then they are certainly qualified to print their initials. We lose more scouts to bad leadership than to sport, girls and gas, combined. Let's get back to the actual scouting program and stop doing "stuff" in a scout uniform,

 

(sorry, I meant "in a scout shirt", I forgot that some here don't wear the uniform.)

 

 

 

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Vicki -

 

Sorry it wasn't clear. Three things bugged me about this. (1) This wasn't the scout initiating working on a MB with a MBC. It was a mom clearly initiating the process. (2) She wasn't getting them so he could work with a MBC, she was planning on working with him and "signing off on them". (3) And since her son was missing Summer Camp, she wanted him to "keep up" with the other boys. This is another pet peeve, the whole "race to advancement" we've talked about. Her son has plenty of time. Missing one SC will not prevent him from making Eagle.

[Vicki]

Gotcha, EagleInKY - agreed on all points, up to and including our jointly held pet peeve. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Vicki

[evmori]

While I agree that a Scout can use any MB counselor that is registered, I really don't have a problem with a Troop not allowing a relative to be a MB counselor for a Scout. And I don't really think any policy has been violated if a Troop does have this policy.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

BARTENDER!

[hacimsaalk12]

in our troop, there isnt anything written, but the advancement chair wont take the card unless another scout comes over and does the badge with you.also, if another counsler is available in the district, the scout is suppossed to go to them. for example, my dad was the only counsler who had camping mb, within our district. my friend came over, and we did it and finished it side by side. my dad also has enviromental science, but another asm has it also, so i have to go to him.

[OneHour]

Does BW's comment warrant my reply? Why not ... I have plenty of sarcasms left!

 

"You cannot do this with merit badges, others may teach but only the registered and approved counselor can sign."

We did not fall off the turnip truck nor we were born yesterday. We are very aware of this and all of our counselors are registered with our District.

 

 

"Second, you ask someone who did not actually see or test the scout to sign for the person who did?"

Uh ... I do not believe that I see you at any of our troop meetings nor am I aware of the fact that you are a member of our troop. The junior instructors and/or another scoutmaster is teaching/assisting/testing. Person who tests the scout signs off the requirement.

 

 

"There is a great lesson in citizenship!"

You're not mocking me. Are you? I may not be a native born, but I can teach many native born many things about citizenship of this great Nation! Don't lecture me on citizenship, sir!

 

"No your Honor someone else actually witnessed what happened, I just agreed to sign a document saying that I had. If a person is qualified to test then they are certainly qualified to print their initials. We lose more scouts to bad leadership than to sport, girls and gas, combined. Let's get back to the actual scouting program and stop doing "stuff" in a scout uniform."

 

This bad, half-baked assumption of what the adult leaders in our troop actually do does not warrant my comment.

 

"bad leadership?" If you are the top of the good leadership that BSA has to offer, then ... (neah I changed my mind ... it's unscoutlike to rebutt that statement). Imagine that, you did have my respect and I was one the ones who regretted to see you leave twice before.

 

Before you criticize someone and quote someone out of context, have the decency to get some damned clarification first. For God sake man ... get the facts before condemned a man!

 

I will not be the one who will be the cause for your self-banishment this time. I refuse to play your game.

 

Good day sir!

[Bob White]

You are absolutely correct.

I was out of line on that one. I retract everything except the part about you not having the authority to alter any part of the advancement process, and I offer my apologies on the rest.

 

BW

[Fuzzy Bear]

One Hour,

 

The answer to your first question is NO and don't bother.

 

FB

[2Eagle]

Try a positive spin on all of this....we hold to the program. If a parent wants to be an MBC for their son then they have to be a registered MBC. They take Youth Protection training, they fill out the adult application, they sit through the troop's assistant-scoutmaster-for-merit-badges class on how to be a counselor and are handed the literature pertaining to such that we get from council. Then they can be an MBC. You end up with a lot of parents registered as MBCs and I've never had one turn down a request to be MBC for another boy. Some of the merit badges lend themselves nicely to doing at home...Family Life for instance (best to let the boy use his own family, not mine). Pet Care...use your own pet, not mine, etc, etc. We ENCOURAGE Scouts to use MBC's other than parents for the purpose of aiding in their development and it is not abused. All of the parents and boys have "buy-in". It ain't hard.

[VAordeal]

this is an intersting problem in my troop. We have this one kid who's mom is counselor for a million merit badges. She has her son do all of them, never offers them to the rest of us scouts and he gets 8-10 badges at a court of honor. The thing that makes my fellow scouts and i really mad is that this kid is going to be the first in our patrol to eagle and he hates scouts. He is only getting all these badges cause he is three away from the most in troop history. I wish we had a rule against this... Sorry, i had just had to rant about this.

[Bob White]

It is always good in cases like this to eliminate the exaggerations and focus on facts.

For instance. You know it is impossible for her to counsel a million merit badges as there are not anywhere near that many.

How many did she actually counsel her son on?

How do you know for sure that no scout from any other unit goes to her?

Is the scoutmaster concerned that she is not qualified for some of these mbs?

Has he told the council of his concern?

Did the scout meet the requirements for the badges?

 

Unless you can honestly answer these questions with factually knowledge then it's gossip and you need to reconsider you participation in spreading it.

 

I understand your frustration but do not let it cloud your judgement as a scout.

 

BW

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Backpacker]

Bob, sanctimonious as usual in your replies I see, it must be hard to be so perfect and right all the time.

Fuzzy, I loved your post and I second it.

 

Back to topic, my troop just received eight new boys from another troop because the scoutmaster signed off his sons as they jumped from scout to first class after just two family (not troop) campouts. He signed off all their requirements personally. The parents complained to the COR and CC to no avail, their reason was that no one else wanted to be scoutmaster. IMHO this was a flagrant violation of the spirit and purpose of the scout law,in spite of what BW may think. This scoutmasters troop was down to 12 boys, now I have 8 of them. Today I just heard from this gentleman concerned by the loss of these boys and all I said to him was, can you blame them. We talked awhile and he felt justified by his actions. I wonder what all of you think, Bob you can sit this one out.

[Bob White]

Sit out and let you misrepresent me? I don't think I am required to let that happen, am I?

 

What you describe and what VAordeal described are two completely different situations.

 

The BSA Advancement Policies and Procedures specifically allow for parents who are registered and approved counselors to counsel their own boys, wards and relatives.

Those same policies also allow a scout to earn as many merit badges from one counselor as that person is registered and approved to counsel

 

So what VA described is allowed. So unless someone has evidence that he was not required to complete all the listed requirements for a badge nothing wrong was done. (I am confident that VA even with the age difference beteen you and him, understood that I was trying to explain that he needs more real evidence before he continues to denegrate the other scout's advancement or the mother's actions).

 

Your situation on the other hand backpacker is an allegation that the advancement requirements were altered. And that is a direct violation of the BSA policies. You cannot add to or delete from any advancement requirement. If someone had evidence that the scout was not advanced then they should report that to the District advancement committee. Now there is actually a few culprits here if the allegations are true.

 

The SM may have signed the book, but who sat on the Board of Review? It was the bor's responsibility to see that the the scout fulfilled the requirements as stated in his handbook. Did they ask about what troop or patrol outings he used to meet the requirements?

 

You cannot fault the boy for the father and the bor not following the rules.

 

Once the board has passed the scout there is no removing the rank, BUT the adults can certainly be set straight.

 

While you are of course welcome to your opinion it has no effect on the advancement policies or procedures of the BSA.

 

I will thank you in the future to post your own opinions and not try to determine or represent mine, and I will do the same.

 

I do not believe we share enough common experiences for you to guess what my opinion might be.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)