Gonzo1 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 OGE, Doesn't it seem odd that a school REQUIRES volunteerism? Required service isn't voluntary, it's mandatory. A Thousand Points of Light Foundation engages and mobilizes volunteers. http://www.pointsoflight.org/about/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkflame Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Some of our Scouts have gone on a 3 day house painting mission trip with our Co's youth group, others have voluteered as "buddies" in a special needs baseball league. Others help with Bible schools. a few have helped during teacher work days at the local schools, preparing textbooks for distribution, sprucing up the libraries, etc. This year one of the small towns here had a drive to ear tag pets. Several boys helped with that. Others worked with a faith-based fod distribution proggram. I agree that there are more opportunities for older boys to have meaningful community service experiences. (Somehow passing out cookies at a church Bible school or dusting the library just doesn't seem as meaningful as finding a soecial needs baseball program and putting yourself out there to volunteer OR going on a mission trips and painting an old person's house, but they both fit the requirement.) Our troop used to require that they do Community first, then Nation and then World, but we stopped that. I hope that will shift the boys toward doing Community last, but who knows. Even the community meeting might be more meaningful if the boys were a little more mature when they attended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Required volunteerism defeats the whole purpose of volunteering! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The word 'oxymoron' was coined for just such a thing as 'required volunteerism'. But requiring service time seems ok to me, and doesn't defeat the purpose of the requirement. Just don't call it volunteering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I've been following this thread and wonder if some are confusing the service requirements for rank with the service requirement for Citizenship in the Community. While the things mentioned, picking up trash, school service hours, troop projects, are fine for rank advancement I would not accept them for Citizenship in the Community. Using a troop project or church function or school arranged service would negate 7c. IMO. The merit badge requirements intent IMO is to stimulate the boy to seek out service opportunities on his own and possibly in an unexplored area. LH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkflame Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I generally agree with you. I think a church function like a service-oriented mission trip where the boy has to find out, sign up, go out of town and really stretch himself is OK, because when he gets to the site he is working with a community organization that is not his church and that he has had to learn about in order to go. Before my time of counseling this MB, the troop required it to be done before the other two Citizenships, which meant mainly very young boys were doing it. They were sent to Bible schools, etc (yes, I said "sent", again negating the "find out about a community agency" part of the requirement). That is slowly changing, and with older boys doing it they are much more able to find out about and do things with organizations they are interested in. One of the challenges with younger guys a(and their parents) is making that leap from Webelos Activity Badges to merit badges, which I guess is the same leap as from parent-run to boy-run. We are also in the middle of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 While the things mentioned, picking up trash, school service hours, troop projects, are fine for rank advancement I would not accept them for Citizenship in the Community. Being a CitC MB counselor, these would be fine for the merit badge as well as rank. There is nothing that prohibits, for the lack of a better word, thing from meeting the requirements of a rank AND MB requirement. The MB requirement is the MB's call & the rank requirement is the SM's call. And these two could be the same person. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Yes Ed but the MB requirement was changed in 2005 and the new wording is such that the boy is now supposed to be "finding" a "charitable organization", researching this organization, inquiring about the avenues for youth participation, and finally volunteering 8 hours of service. As described in the other posts the picking up of trash, school projects, and troop projects did not meat these requirements. Should a boy satisfy 7a, 7b, and the first part of 7c, then include his entire troop in the donation of service, as a MBC I would accept that. As SM I would also describe the "project" as Scout X's Citizenship in the Community project not a troop project. Same as would apply to an "Eagle project" as apposed to a "troop service project". LH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 LongHaul, This can be achieved for any service project as long as it is outside of Scouting. The Scout choose a charitable organization, finds out info about it & volunteer 8 hours of service. This could also fulfill the service project rank requirement. Picking up trash could be done for a charitable organization, so could a school project. A Troop project, no, since it must be outside of Scouting. I erred in my previous post. The time volunteered is for a charitable organization and can be anything a charitable organization would like the Scout to do. It could be sweeping out their warehouse! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackmessick Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 The 8 hour service requirement is actually a return to earlier requirements for the badge when I earned it in the early 70s (you needed it for first class back then). In a way, I am glad to see some of these badges get a little tougher. I think CITN is easiest only because they get a lot of this in government class in junior high (or they should, anyway; I got a lot of it from those ABC television shorts known as "Schoolhouse Rock"--you know, "I'm just a bill, yes I'm only a bill, sitting here on Capitol Hill.") If you look at the rank requirements, it says for example, "while a first class scout, take part in service projects totaling at least 6 hours of work." so if the boy earned his CITC merit badge when he was a first class scout, then he could possibly account 6 of the 8 hours for star rank. but the extra two CANNOT be applied to Life Scout rank because those requirements start with "While a Star Scout...", which he wasn't at the time the service hours were performed. Note also that for the service hour requirements, it also says that Scoutmaster approval is needed. So, if your Scoutmaster is a stickler for no activity "counting twice" for the many and various requirements, it sounds like it's in his power to say "no, those service hours can only count for CITC merit badge." Now, you may think this mean, but you know what would happen without the restrictions? A boy would very likely perform a lot when he was younger, then stop. In this way, he develops a life ethic of service to his community over his entire Scouting career. As he gets older, the service will likely be of greater effort and complexity as well. Remember that rank advancement is a method, not an aim of Scouting. The reason behind all this service is to build citizenship into his character. As far as I'm concerned, the more service they experience, the better. And it shouldn't always lead to some material reward (in American Scouting's case, a badge), with personal happiness in helping others the main discovery (read B-P's Farewell Message to the Scouts of the World). just a few thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Sorry Ed I just don't see how a school can be seen as a charitable organization. LH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtm25653 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 LongHaul, Maybe a regular public school isn't a charitable org, but many private schools and charter schools are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 The school associated with our church is considered a charitable organization for tax purposes but I would not accept it for the MB. The school's main objective is not to "bring the people of the community together to work for the good of the community". LH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 The school associated with our church is considered a charitable organization for tax purposes but I would not accept it for the MB. The school's main objective is not to "bring the people of the community together to work for the good of the community". What is their main objective LH? It is a charitable organization! And how do you know people don't move to your community to go to this school? Do they do anything for the community? Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Ed, I have no intention of being a stand in for Merlyn. The schools primary focus is to educate the students that have parents willing to PAY the tuition. If someone moves to my community to have their children attend this school then by definition they moved here to attend this school not work for the good of the community. Saying that a church school is an organization that brings people of the community together to work for the good of the community is like saying BSA is an organization that brings boys together to sell them uniforms. LH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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