Board of Review -multiple ranks

[KoreaScouter]

"...shouldn't the Scout and not you, request a BOR?"

 

I don't know; the advancement requirement is to complete one. Somebody with a Handbook in front of them, what's the body of the Handbook say? If it's silent, then it's a unit policy, right?

 

As far as I'm concerned, the Scout is by default asking for a BOR when he completes his SM conference. Unless, there are Scouts who want a SM conference, but don't want a BOR -- never met one, though. To me, sitting back and silently waiting for a Scout to personally ask the committee for a BOR reminds me of playing Stump the Dummy. We do that too much, in my opinion. It's easy with adolescent boys, and can be entertaining in the same way that pulling the wings off flies is entertaining.

 

I don't quarrel with a unit leader who wants his Scouts to call the Advancement chair and ask for a BOR. I don't see what's gained by doing that, though...it seems like one of several techniques that gives the same result in the end. I do it this way because it allows me to run interference between the Scouts and the committee -- a few less moving parts for the Advancement chair. A few more moving parts for me, true, but that's okay...

 

KS

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

KS,

 

For the same reason that scouts should contact an MBC for a merit badge. You don't sign boys up for MB's do you? They ask you about doing an MB, you sign off on it and give them the name of a MBC to contact. It is up to the scout to make the call and set it up. It promotes adult interaction, responsibility for ones own actions and advancement and is a lesson in leadership skills to organize, request and coordinate with the committee.

 

We had a situation just this week with a scout. We are having elections next week. This boy has never mentioned to the SM that he was interested in running for SPL. He still had a number of items to be signed off on for 1st class. His mom caught me (ASM) in the hall during the troop meeting and asked me to sign off 3 requirements. The boy tracked down the SM and asked for an SM conference on the spot. This was so he could have his BOR next week prior to the election. I knew that he had completed two of the requirements, but not the third. Unwisely, I signed them when I should have told her it was her son's responsibility to obtain his sign offs, request an SM conference and a BOR. The SM told the boy that our standing policy was to request an SM conference a week in advance and he would not give him one until next week. Once that is complete, he needs to approach the committee to schedule a BOR. The mom went ballistic and stormed out of the church because we were picking on her son. No, we were holding him to the same standard that each boy is fully aware of. I'm not going to question a troop if the adults want to schedule BOR's for the boy, but I believe it is something he should do himself.

[Eagledad]

Hi all

 

>>I don't see what's gained by doing that, though...it seems like one of several techniques that gives the same result in the end.

[acco40]

"When you want a thing done, 'Don't do it yourself' is a good motto for Scoutmasters." - Sir Robert Baden-Powell.

 

"In Scouting, a boy is encouraged to educate himself instead of being instructed." - Sir Robert Baden-Powell.

 

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[EagleInKY]

I also believe that the best SM appears to be the a lazy SM.

 

Barry, I love that. I'll have to quote you from time to time. Recently, on a campout, we had some Webelos with us. The first year scouts were off learning some first aid, the older scouts had the Webelos back in the woods teaching them how to build a shelter. The new dads are standing around the fire asking what they needed to do. "Throw another log on the fire and relax", I said. I really think they thought I must have been the laziest guy out there. I tried to explain to them that this is how it's supposed to work. We're just here to make sure they don't go astray or do something stupid. And to have fun with them. Anyway, I digress.

 

Regarding this topic. I don't think there's a right answer. There are valid reasons for both approaches. We do it like KS for a variety of reasons. Mostly to keep my sanity, I think. There's three of us that need to be involved with setting it up. The boy, the Advancement Chair and me. The boy needs to be prepared for the BOR, the AC needs to line up the members of the board, and I need to provide him with the advancment paperwork. I also like to be there so I can first have a conversation with the BOR about the boy. And to introduce him to them.

 

So, yes, I could tell the boy to schedule the BOR with the AC after we have our conference. The AC would then call me and tell me the date so I would have the paperwork for him. It just seems like an extra step. I guess the boy may learn a little from it, but - at least so far - I haven't been convinced of the value.

 

But, hey, I'm open minded (on some things). I'll have to think on it some more.

[KoreaScouter]

The difference between our two examples (SM tells committee a Scout is ready for BOR, and Scout contacts MB counselor) is that in the case of the latter, the MB section of the handbook (starting on P 185) includes a checklist that tells the Scout to call the counselor. To my knowledge, no such requirement for a Scout to schedule his own BOR.

 

I agree with you SR540, there should be a single standard for TF through Eagle on this matter. We schedule Eagle BORs with our District Advancement chair -- don't expect Scouts to do that one either.

 

Barry: ultimately, adults do choose when Scouts are ready to advance -- our "gatekeeper" role is all over the program. My signature (or initials, more accurately) doesn't go in his book until he IS ready for a BOR.

 

I understand the "lazy" quote is intended to refer to a SM who has appropriately trained his Green Bars and ASMs, and now watches in detached, blissful amusement while they all perform their assigned or delegated responsibilities. Yep, we do that, too, and I do try to "manage by exception". The trick is recognizing when the exceptions are about to rear up, not confusing activity with achievement, and being able to distinguish between a SM who just looks lazy and the SM who really is lazy.

 

I also understand and appreciate the value in boys getting positive adult interaction. Between a NSP ASM, Advancement ASM, Program ASM, MB counselors, etc., they get plenty of that. If that's not enough, 30 seconds with the Advancement chair won't make much of a difference...

 

KS

[KoreaScouter]

OK, I'm home from Roundtable, and have a chance to look this up. The Handbook says, on P. 61, under Complete your Board of Review: "Once you have accomplished all the Tenderfoot requirements, and have participated in a Scoutmaster conference, your Scoutmaster will arrange a board of review for you." That's exactly what I do.

 

If your unit uses a different technique to arrange it, everybody's comfortable with it, and it works for you, then that's fine as far as I'm concerned. I wasn't trying to start a controversy over this, just answering a question about multiple-rank BORs.

 

Can we agree to disagree and call a truce?

 

KS

[Eagledad]

Hi KS

 

If I appeared to sound that my way is the only way, I humbly apologize to you and everyone else. As much as I try to improve, I just cant seem to type what I want to say.

 

I didnt see this as a "agree to disagree" kind of discussion, but instead several Master Scouters expressing their method of scouting. You have proven yourself as a wonderful scouter on this forum a long time ago.

 

Between you, Semper, Beav, EagleInKy, Mark and a couple others, there have been some really good ideals being passed around here lately.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[SR540Beaver]

KS,

 

Hear, hear and a hearty hi-ho silver to what Barry said. You have nothing but my deepest respect. You proved your point with documentation. Are you channeling BW?

 

We are a new troop with all first year scouts who keep wanting to drop back into Webelos mode. We find it beneficial to make them do for themselves since their mommies tend to do everything else for them at home.

 

EagleinKY,

 

Sanity? You probably fell for that one hour a week pitch too didn't you?

[EagleInKY]

Beav - Nope, never bought it. Grew up in a scouting family so I knew better.

 

Mommies doing the work. Yep, I've got that issue too. I feel a spinoff coming.

[acco40]

I catch your drift but Webelos mode? Similar to Boy Scouts, only the Webelos den leader (or their designee) may sign off on requirements. For the other Cub Scout ranks "mommies" and dad (or any other Akela) may sign off.

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Acco,

 

Perhaps a more accurate description would be Cub mode. They want to camp and they want to come to meetings, they just don't want to do any of the work. It stems from mommy wiping their noses at home, buying them everything they want and not having to take responsibility for anything. The boys are coming along slowly but surely. They don't fuss and whine when it is time to set up their patrol site anymore. They know they have to do it. They do however still want to make ramen noodles the main course for dinner. They still think that turning the burner on the stove full blast will cook the food faster when all they accomplish is turning the outside of their raw meat into charcoal. They still want to swish a plate into cold water and call it clean. We still stand back and watch and make them do it over until it is right in the hopes that it will eventually filter thru. We ARE making process!

[AwHeck]

In our troop, at least, there is always a separation for the rank advancements in that the SM won't do a SM conference until the BOR for the prior rank has been completed. We have a large troop (almost 100 with our new cross-overs) and we have a specific committee position for BOR coordinator. The scouts are expected to call the BOR coordinator in advance to schedule their BOR (I'm the CC). One difference is at Summer Camp - I'm usually there and prepared to do BORs as our (usually newer) scouts are ready to advance. I have had the situation at a Summer Camp where a scout was ready for 2 ranks at the same time but what we did was he had his SM Conference for the first rank followed by a BOR then his second conference followed by the second BOR. At summer camp, we usually have a white board posted with areas for them to sign up for the SM conferences and BORs. He can't sign up for the second conference until he had passed the first BOR - depending on how many other scouts were trying to advance and whether they and the SM were available, the second conference could be held immediately or after a few hours or the next day.