Star Scout on "Hiatus"

[EagleInKY]

We have a BOR in November and June

 

How come? You can have a BOR at any time. Many troops do schedule them at a specific time, but it's usually once a month, not once every six months. With this schedule, how do you achieve FC/FY? Sorry, I know this is taking it a little off subject, but you should rethink this practice. No, correction, you should eliminate this practice.

[OldGreyEagle]

If you know he didnt do his job right, and he knows he didnt do it right, then there is no question, he does not advance. While I am against making up rules, such as you have to attend 50% of meetingscor one campout every 6 months, I am also not for letting requirements slide. Bob White's original question ( I think) was what would/did the scout say if you asked him if he did his job satisfactory for the required six months. I see two issues, a scout who drops out of sight without a job and those who do. The ones who have a job who "abscond" (always loved that word) are in much more "trouble" when they get back. He has to complete his six months for the sake of every other scout who ever earned Life. Now, about this board of review every six months, in the troop I serve we have them as scouts need them, we dont slow down advancement based on an adult calender, the scouts advance at their own pace

[Bob White]

John D.

Please do not even get me started on lecturing the scout during a Scoutmaster Conference or on only having two boards of review a year.

 

Please just answer one question.

 

Has the scout in question completed all the requirements for his Life rank?

[John D]

Our practices may seem a little strange Eagle but we find 2 BOR per year about right. The Troop is small, about 20, and the Board is not just parents but local officials, sometimes the Director of the American School or even the Ambassador. These folks do not appreciate having their time wasted to review 2 scouts. People over here work hard, we have no "retirees" or "geezer" (term used affectionately) Scouters here. People come to Qatar to work, period, so you have to respect their time. On the lecture, Bob, I did not have a conference with the lad just gave him a bit of plain speaking, something you have develloped quite a reputation for. After checking again in appears the lad has met all requirements except those under discussion here,(serve actively in a POR) which is why we're discussing them!

John D

[John D]

Patr 2. On Eagle's question about FC/FY I know this has become dogma in the states but our scout season is short (Septembet to May), everyone "absconds" (that word again) for the summer, we have no summer scout camp or even a proper camp ground in the country. Some guys attend summer camp in the US and they can make FC/FY. We get scouts transferring in that made FC/FY and I find these 12 year olds in most cases have to be retaught everthing, can't cook, can't read a map, can't use a compass, tied the bowline once, it was all a blur. Opps, more lecturing!! Off the subject anyway.

John D

[Bob White]

"After checking again in appears the lad has met all requirements except those under discussion here,(serve actively in a POR) which is why we're discussing them!"

 

You say "those" (plural) and "them" (plural) but you only list one requirement, and that one is being worked on now.

 

So if he hasn't finished all the requirements then he does not advance until all the requirements are completed. Why does that concept require input from total strangers but not a calm conversation with the scout.

 

I reserve my plain talk for "leaders" who do not follow the program.. like not having troop committee members do the board of review as specified by the BSA, only having two BORs a year instead of frequent ones as instructed by the BSA, and lecturing scouts during scoutmaster confereces rather than listening to the scout.

 

I thought from your original post the scout just stopped coming. The more we learn about the unit the more I agree with your second rendition...he escaped.

 

"These folks do not appreciate having their time wasted to review 2 scouts."

 

Luckily hard working folks around much of the rest of the scouting world do not look at serving the scouts as a waste of time. Your loss, our gain.

 

Twenty must be a big job for someone so hard working and busy. Don't worry I'll bet there will be a lot fewer scouts to waste your time before long.

 

 

 

[evmori]

It sounds like this Scout hasn't completed his POR requirement for rank. And if he really wants to "earn" this rank, he should be willing to complete the requirement. Remember, we can't add or subtract from the requirements and if this Scout is "given" his rank, that is a violation of the advancement policy.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[John D]

Thanks for the input gentlemen. We are on the Muslim "Eid" break for the next week so when I see the lad again (assuming he shows up) I plan to have a chat with him along the lines suggested by several of you. It's a chronic problem, as these posts suggest, and I wish we had clearer guidelines than the "serve actively for 6 months" rule. We'll also consider an extra BOR, maybe every 3 months. Now if only we had some woods to camp in.......

John D

[OldGreyEagle]

Hey JD, just a few observations. First of all, thank you for providing the scouting program overseas, I am sure the families of the scouts appreciate it even if they dont hardly mention it. I know I do.

 

next, you say you have a "small troop of 20". Well, in the District where I live there are 23 troops. The average size troop was last reported to be 18-20. And the troop I serve has 70, so in this District you would be considered a normal to larger troop, I dont know if that helps.

 

Now, I can see how having an Ambassodor on a Board of Review would be a momentous event for a scout, but scouts being scouts, which is another way of saying scouts being kids being kids, help me understand. If a scout misses out on a BOR because he has one requirement outstanding, and he gets that requirement done the week after the BOR, does that mean he has to wait 6 months to be raised in rank?

 

Why not have Board of Reviews when the scouts need them. A Board of Review (other than Eagle) requires 3 committee members. I would hope with 20 scouts you could get three parents who are on the committee to do this function. Actually, committee members dont have to be parents, just interested people on the charter as committee members.

 

I can see having Courts of Honor every 6 months with the Ambassador handing out the ranks. That way the scout can remember I got my first class badge from Ammbassador X, not that I had to wait 12 weeks for that lousy ambassador guy to have time for me to do the BOR so I could get my rank.

 

In the troop I serve, we give the badge of rank to the scout at the meeting they earn it. If the BOR was done after the meeting, then the scout gets the badge at the end of the next meeting. At the Court of Honor the scout gets the rank card and parents pin (if any) that way he is recognized twice, once immediately after he earns the rank and then again formally at the COH. He advancement is then not held up because of adult imposed calendars.

 

Camping in the dessert?

 

"... Midnight at the Oasis, send your camels to bed..."

[Hunt]

I'd just like to make a distinction here that I think isn't entirely clear. I see two situations:

1. A boy has a POR, and although he attends meetings and outings, rarely if ever performs duties related to his POR. Imagine, as an example, a bugler who never brings his bugle and never plays any bugle calls. In such a case, I do tend to agree with those who say that his advancement shouldn't be denied if it was never made clear to him what his duties were, and if he was never counseled that he needed to do more to meet them. On the other hand, if he was told initially and reminded periodically that his POR calls for him to bring his bugle and to blow it, and he fails to do so, I don't see how he can be approved for the next rank without fixing the problem.

2. A boy has a POR, and simply stops coming to meetings and outings for several months. I see no basis at all for counting those months toward his POR service time (or toward "active"), even if nobody has admonished him.

[John D]

OGE, good suggestion. Composition of BORs is another thorny question, I prefer a mix of parents, Committee people and a prominent person or two, someone Johnny has't met. If it is only parents the experience of explaining yourself to strangers is lost. I think a scout should be able to walk in to a room of complete strangers, and answer their questions, just what we do in the business world (those of us with jobs anyway). The COR occurs the following meeting so a boy passes the board and is immediately recognised. Our guys don't advance as fast as in US troops so it is not as large a problem as it appears. My flak jacket is on for the expected denunciations....

[OldGreyEagle]

John D, keep that body armor on tight and your head low and we all love you,

 

Out

[Hunt]

John D--not a denunciation, I hope, but some thoughts--your system guarantees that advancement will be slow, because boys know they will have to wait many months for a BOR, so why bother getting the requirements done early?

Second, facing strangers to explain yourself is appropriate for an Eagle Board, but is not how advancement is supposed to work for the lesser ranks. Remember, it's not a test or a retest--it's just a review of whether the boy has met his requirements--which have already been signed off by persons with the authority to do so. Non-scouters don't really have a role in that review. My son's troop often arranges them "on the fly" with committee members who are around at most meetings--before or after the meeting (or even during the meeting if there is a lull and the rank is fairly junior).

Finally, if your unit is like other overseas units I'm familiar with, you already face big challenges in getting your boys through the ranks, because so many of them probably leave for several months a year, and probably bail out to boarding school in their mid-teens. You ought to be looking for ways to speed them up, not slow them down.

[John D]

Hunt and OGE, both your comments are well reasoned and I think we'll add another BOR, go to November/March/June. I still hold with a mix of parents and friendly strangers on the board. I remember BOR as a BIG DEAL when I was a scout, not just my friends' parents cobbled together on the spot. As an example we have 2 local Eagles with grown kids and no other connection to the troop, the addition of these folks gets the boys accustomed to meeting new people. It also sends the signal that BOR is a special occasion, not just something for the parents to do while they wait to pick up Johnny. The less frequent boards also get the kids to plan ahead, something they should be learning. The other argument that kids "coast" while waiting for BOR is not what I see, the coasters coast regardless, the ambitious ones work on the next rank. Thoughts? No anger please.

[FScouter]

I'd have to agree that the BoR should be a big deal, more than something arranged on the spur of the moment. Having an ambassador or such sitting on the board is great. In our troop we like to bring in an outside person on occasion. If that can be arranged, great. If not, we proceed with a group of committee members. Some of the boys may know these committee members. But they rarely have conversations with them. They don't really "know" these adults. Outside strangers does not necessarily make for a quality BoR experience any more than using known committee members cheapens it. The quality is in how the people sitting on the board perform.

 

More important I think is that the boy can complete his requirements and sit for a BoR shortly thereafter. More than 3-4 weeks seems like an unreasonable delay to expect the boy to endure.