Star Scout on "Hiatus"

[John D]

As a SM of a small overseas troop I could use some advice. A scout earned Star rank in Dec 2003, he's 13 years old and a good kid with active parents. During the spring of '04 his attendance was spotty and this fall from September to now has come to only 3 meetings and no campouts. Our BOR is in 2 weeks and he wants Life rank, he has the merit badges. Should he receive Life in spite of this attendance record? He is Troop Guide but

[Bob White]

Did he complete all the requirements?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[John D]

That's a good question. Could a scout gain rank and rarely come to a meeting? How often does a boy have to show up in order to "be active in your Troop"? How does he "serve actively in a Troop position of responsibility" if he never comes? What would you do in this case?

John D

[Bob White]

I would talk to the scout. I would ask him if he actively served in a troop position. If he says yes, I would ask for examples.

 

I would ask if he was active for 6 months since becoming a Star Scout. If he says yes I would ask for examples.

 

If his explainations make sense, and I believed he completed the requirements then I would pass him.

 

If he says no to either question then I would say "let's make a plan for you to complete these requirements."

 

Do you think that work for you?

[John D]

Thanks Bob. Another question. Is it appropriate to consider the message passing this scout sends to other First Class scouts? By passing him we are saying attendance doesn't matter, and once you get First Class a scout can schedule band or sports activities on scout nite and still advance at the same pace as the guys that continue to come. Doesn't this make the guys that continue to come t

[OldGreyEagle]

I dont see where Bob has said attendance doesnt matter. The key question is whether or not he completed his position of responsibility. What position did he have? How satisfied are you with how the scout handled his job? Another key, has he me the requirements?

 

As far as what does it say to other scouts, any advancement in rank of any scout should say to the other scouts, see what happens when you fulfill the requirements, you advance! Don't add to the requirements or take away from them.

 

Now, you said you have a Board of Review comming up, how often are BOR scheduled?

[scoutldr]

I think John D has answered his own questions. The duty of Troop Guide is to guide and mentor the new scouts as they begin their scouting careers...how can he do that if he's not there? Seems to me that being with them at meetings and on campouts is the first step to successful performance in the position.

[Bob White]

What message would that be?

 

If you complete the requirements you will advance, and if you don't complete them you won't, but I will help you make a plan to get there?

 

 

BW

[evmori]

I really don't see how he could have fulfilled his POR (Troop Guide) if he is rarely there. Also, has he completed his service hours requirement? Has he had his SM Conference? Advancement for this Scout at this time I would say is iffy at best.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[KoreaScouter]

Even if you get past the leadership and "be active" requirements (which you shouldn't, if your Troop Guide hasn't been to meetings/outings), you will then hit the "Scout Spirit" speed bump. Did he in fact "help other people at all times"? Was he "loyal", "helpful", "obedient"?

 

I encounter this too sometimes. I try to make sure there are no misunderstandings at the outset by giving youth leaders the photocopied sheets from the SM Junior Leader Training Handbook that lists their job descriptions and specific requirements. They know what I expect. I also don't withhold feedback as their term goes on, too. If any of them are "mailing it in", I become the postman.

 

Bob makes a good point. The lads will often be tougher on themselves than you would ever be. They know if they've put in the required effort, whether you're giving them feedback or not.

 

Also, Scouts keep score. We all know they only compete with themselves, but just as in the pee-wee soccer game where no score is kept but all the kids know how many goals were scored, the lads know who advances, when they advance, and how much work they did to get there. If a Scout who they last saw on a milk carton shows up at a COH getting rank advancement while they've been toiling like galley slaves, their inclination will be to throttle back. In other words, if the minimums weren't good enough, they wouldn't be the minimums, and what he did is the new minimum.

 

KS

[anarchist]

These kind of things drive me nuts. I am watching the same situation...with a like scout who is now getting ready for eagle...He dropped out of site for nearly a year(for girls and sports-both highly worthwhile activities.

 

During his disappearing act he did not "complete' his job (in a satisfactory manner) as ASPL and due to a weak SPL the troop could have really used his efforts. I don't think he has been on an outdoor activity in the last twelve months...He is currently acting as Chaplins Aid for his POR requirements...and will be given his eagle...

I am hugely glad I will not be on his Eagle board. don't get me wrong, Ilove this kid, have known him and his family for his entire scouting life -tigers on... but in my heart I know he will not deserve his eagle. And in the words of my son, "if he gets his Eagle what are they saying about being active? about showing scout spirit and about fairness?" (and these boys are best buds)! The boy turns 18 in two or three months so there is little time for him to "become" active except for attending meetings and of course working his Eagle project. I am glad I 'sit on the committee side' and not SM or ASM cause I do not think He would have gotten past the SM conference. I do not relish these judgements...I wish you guys all the best but maybe I am just too strict.

[dan]

Sounds to me from the little bit of info I have is that he did what was requested from him for the POR.

Sounds like the troop leaders (SPL,ASPL, New scout patrol ASM) failed to do there job, and now you are placing the blame on the troop guide.

[EagleInKY]

Bottom line is whether or not he completed the requirements, not what kind of message it sends. As already mentioned, I see two requirements that you need to consider:

 

1) Did he adequately serve in the POR for the specified amount of time required for the rank?

2) Does he show Scout Spirit by living by the Oath and Law in his everyday life?

 

If the answer to both is "yes", then you go ahead with it. Note, he could have adequately served the POR for the required amount of time and only be dropping the ball as of late. If he met the requirement, then you have no option but to sign him off for that. Then you have to ponder question #2.

 

You may also decide that he met these requirements by the "skin of this teeth". If so, you and the BOR should inform him of the need to "step it up" in order to fulfill the requirements for the next rank.

[evmori]

Sounds to me from the little bit of info I have is that he did what was requested from him for the POR.

Sounds like the troop leaders (SPL,ASPL, New scout patrol ASM) failed to do there job, and now you are placing the blame on the troop guide.

 

dan,

How did you determine this?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dan]

Sounds to me like the troop guide was placed in the POR and no one told him what his job was, and no one followed up to make sure he was even doing the job until after the fact. The scout cannot improve on his job because he was never told that he was not doing it until he asks for rank advancement.

I think I made one mistake in my post, the ASPL should not be included. The ASPL are responsible for other POR but not Troop Guide, that would be the SM, ASM of new scout patrol, and SPL.