What's happened to Camping MB

[ps56k]

This is a copy of a thread from back in January -

I'm just disappointed in the way the BSA has changed things

in Scouting - in the current Handbook, the MB's, and the program.

It seems that things have drifted from a center focus,

and they are trying to "appeal" or "react" to pressures...

But that's any ongoing different thread & topic

 

My basic disappointment with the "new & improved" Camping MB,

is that the "extra" reqs of #9 have nothing to do with

enhancing the "skills" of Camping.

That is why the old reqs looked fine to me

 

This would be my basic sanity check for any req - or classroom

"how does it enhance your knowledge of the MB subject"

 

------>>> old thread snip

> > > 9. Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights and do TWO of the

> > following,

> > (1) Hike up a mountain, gaining at 2,000 vertical feet.

 

> not many "mountains" in the midwest

 

We don't have many either in the East but I wouldn't want to keep people

with mountains in their back yard from using them? You live in an ideal

area for a canoe trip or bike trip.

 

> > (2) Backpack for at least four hours.

 

ok - at least it's related to Camping

 

> > (3) Take a bike hike of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.

 

> sorry, usually don't carry a bike on a camping trip

 

This is camping, not backpacking. Bike hikes are a lot more fun if you

make them into overnighters.

 

> > (4) Plan and carry out a float trip of at least four hours.

 

> that kinda makes it a canoe trip

 

So what is wrong with canoe trips. Camping on overnight canoe trips is

a lot of fun. A lot more fun than just a campout or just a canoe trip.

 

> > (5) Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.

 

> that kinda makes it a climbing event

 

Rapelling is just the opposite of climbing. It is a great activity on a

campout. We offer the cope course during the winter at our Council camp.

 

> > (6) Perform a conservation project.

> ok

 

The BSA is just trying to encourage more opportunity. They don't want

to only consider a walk in the woods. Actually rather than opening up

"other areas" they are restricting it to just these 6 areas. There are

a lot more that could be put on the list. Remember you only have to do

two. The significance is that you have to do more than one.

 

 

[Spiney Norman]

Sometimes I wonder what the heck folks are thinking. Most of the revised/updated merit badge requirements have gotten pretty darn odious,IMO. The cooking MB has turned into a food sanitation course whilst the communictions MB reminds me of an ISO9000 program. Just my opinion.

Ken

[scoutldr]

And (from what I've read on this forum) WB21 is a rehash of the TQM fad that we had to suffer through 10 years ago (and has since been abandoned by the corporate world).

[Bob White]

So much for the value of rumors.

or subtitled: Can I get you a little cheese to go with your whine.

 

There is not a drop of TQM in Wood Badge for the 21st Century. If you want the right to criticize a training course at least have the knowledge that comes from actually taking the training.

 

As far as the Communications MB it is very much the same as an advanced Public Speaking course my son had in High School.

 

As for the Camping merit badge... what difference does it make if they list 6 or 60 options, you still only need to do two?

 

So how was your last troop meeting?

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

As for the Camping merit badge... what difference does it make if they list 6 or 60 options, you still only need to do two?

 

Excellent point, Bob ! But what does hiking or rappelling or bike riding or backpacking have to do with camping?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Spiney Norman]

Oooh! Oooh! I can answer that one. Camping, Hiking, Backpacking and Climbing(Rappelling) are all merit badges.

 

When you earn the Climbing, Hiking, Backpacking or Climbing merit badge are there any requirements which specify that something must be done while camping?

 

Just a Question.

Ken

[eagle90]

While the BSA is changing merit badges such as camping, cooking, communications, dog care and such, the Computers merit badge has not been changed since 1993!! In a field where technology is changing while I write this, that MB should have been updated long ago. From the MB Book: " In the near future we may see modems at a speed of 56K"! WOW!!!!!

 

[Proud Eagle]

I think that Computer example just shows why you need someone who has some knowledge of the field to help teach and guide the Scout through the MB.

 

It is also a good argument for BSA continuing to update their MB books.

[SWScouter]

the Computers merit badge has not been changed since 1993!! In a field where technology is changing while I write this, that MB should have been updated long ago. From the MB Book: " In the near future we may see modems at a speed of 56K"!

 

First a smart alec response, Do you see modems faster than 56K? Remember, DSL and such don't use modems and "Cable modem" really is a misnomer.

 

I'll preface the following with a little personal background to establish my expertise. I earned a BS in Computer Science in 1982 and an MS in 1998. I have been professionally developing computer systems since earning my BS.

 

Now, my response to updating the Computers merit badge. First, I think the requirements are very good and hold there value over time. There are only two requirements I would update and those are 5b and 6. 5b just needs minor rewording to bring it up to date and I would add some terms to 6.

 

Now, the Computers MB pamphlet on the other hand, really does need updating. That is, though, a completely different issue than updating the MB requirements.

 

The requirements for Computers MB can be seen at http://usscouts.org/usscouts/mb/mb036.html

 

Regards,

SWScouter

[Bob White]

Open question to anyone,

Please give us a date in the last 8 years when a newly written Computer MB book would not be out of date technologically within 6 months of its release.

 

BSA is releasing a new Computer MB book in 2005 on schedule with its rewrite of nearly every MB manual over a 5 year period. If you have the personal knowledge and experience to write such a book...why haven't you?

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[eagleSM]

 

 

when i earned my Camping MB patch it had a green border. i'm glad that enough people *whined* about it that today the boys earn it with a silver border

 

my 2 cents worth,

 

eSM

[Bob White]

and specifically what evidence do you have that shows that whining played any role in the change?

[scoutldr]

Does that mean you are old? When I earned it ALL MB had green borders.

 

You are correct Bob. My comment was unfounded as I have not taken the course.

[eagleSM]

well, let's see , Mr White:

 

first of all, WHINE is Your word , not mine. i find your comments UnKind and DisCourteous to ps56K for expressing his opinion.

 

since you have had over 5000 of your own opinions in a public forum, you should at least be Friendly enough to allow him/her his without such a comment.

 

as for evidence, if your looking for Chapter & Verse, lets see.... first define it, per Webster:

 

Main Entry: 1: evidence

Pronunciation: 'e-v&-d&n(t)s, -v&-"den(t)s

Function: noun

1 a : an outward sign : INDICATION b : something that furnishes proof : TESTIMONY; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter

 

hmmm... someone must have whined/provided an outward sign/furnished proof/submitted to a tribunal that the Camping Merit Badge should still be Eagle Required.....

 

 

... and many of us would still like to know what rappelling/canoeing/etc has to do with it.

 

eSM

 

[Bob White]

Eagle SM

 

I do not see how the number of my posts has anything to do with it. Keep in mind that many were responses to questions for assistance directed specifically to me. Had I not responded I am sure you would have been equally critical of me.

 

PS56K is welcome to have and post an opinion, which he did and no one as you can see kept him from doing so. That however does not mean that others have any less right to question his post.

 

My only response to him was based on the logic of his argument. If the scout has only to do two specified activities from a list, what difference does the size of the list matter as long as there are more than 2 choices.

 

As far as why those outdoor activities are listed it is very simple. What is camping? Basically its sleeping in a rustic structure. Tent camping is sleeping in a tent. There aren't many people who don't know how to fall asleep.

 

The merit badge teaches two very important things. One is how to prepare yourself to go somewhere and fall asleep, AND that there should be more to going outdoors than just pitching a tent.

 

Scouts shouldn't go camping!

 

They should go DO STUFF! And while their out there why not sleep in a rustic shelter?

 

TOO MANY troops go camping. They plan by saying lets go camp. Then as an afterthought they say "and while we are there what can we do?".

 

Patrols and troops instead should plan to go do stuff like caving, rappelling, cycling. Then say "so that we can spend more time doing this thing let's camp while we are there".

 

The Camping merit badge teaches you to plan your camping as part of DOING other things, and then how to plan your gear based on the activity, your transportation, and your environment.

 

Mystery solved.

 

My whining comment was toward the first three posts as a group. Why is it so shocking that the cooking mb should stress sanitation? The cooking part of cooking is pretty easy isn't it? I mean its not like you personally have to move the molecules around really fast is it? The heat source pretty much does that for you.

 

You need to know three things, What am I going to eat, how am I going to transport it, how do I use it to stay healthy.

 

Sanitiation is a big part of food, as a restaurant owner.

 

As far as the other whine, that has been owned up to and apologized for so I see no need to rehash it.

 

FINALLY, The National Boy Scout Advancement Committee meets a couple times a year and constantly reviews the advancement program looking for ways to stay current and comprehensive. Many serious scouters take the time to evaluate program needs and write meaningful letters to the BSA recommending program ideas they hgave developed. Others attent national training courses where they have the opportunity to discuss ideas with other dedicated scouters and national representatives to constructively share ideas. Still others send whining posts to internet sites or complain to other volunteers in a parking lot after a meeting and then claim responsibility when something changes, as if anybody really altered the program because of their personal dicontent.

 

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)