Service Hours for Star & Life

[ASM59]

I guess I need to look more closely into this. Our former SM wouldn't allow any of these to count due to the direct benefit to BSA or due to the service being a part of normal "religious" activity/requirements.

 

As a side question:

Do your Troops offer service opportunities to the Scouts?

 

We to have outings each year that focus on doing some service work;

Trail creation & trail maintenance at a local Christian retreat center,

City Park clean-up, Streets clean-up, and more...

 

ASM59

[EagleInKY]

We offer -

 

Scouting for Food each November (ran by the council, but coordinated by units)

 

Work days at our sponsor (2 or 3 a year, usually doing groundskeeping or other type of work).

 

Trail maintenance at our local scout camp.

 

Miscellaneous maintenance at a local park.

[packsaddle]

scouting for food, roadside cleanup (3 times per year), shoreline cleanup (numerous opportunities), trail maintenance, Veteran's Day ceremony assistance (chairs, ushering, cleanup, etc.), same for one or two other holidays. Not all the boys do all of these. But the troop does all of them and all of the boys do some of these.

[anarchist]

I have a question and a problem with many of the examples tossed out...it appears to me that most of these are 'double dipping' for credit...

 

I mean...if I have to work for a goal...confirmation, say, why on earth should i get 'credit' twice? OA hours the same, the hours worked are for OA membership not service to the community...even though that is/or maybe the result...

 

Ushering at church seems to me to be a duty to my church for my church 'membership'and part of my particiaption in worship...but cleaning the church or church grounds for the general good would be more in line with 'service' hours.

 

just seems to me, that service hours should be for above and beyond type tasks...to generate more volunteerism not just claiming credit twice!

 

can someone explain this one to me.

[Bob White]

Because the BSA advanceent method is based on positive reinforcement. I don't know that you can give a youth too much reinforcewmnt for doing the right thing. If you can take service work done by a scout and find multiple ways to recognize those efforts then that is a good thing not something you should be looking for ways to avoid.

 

The BSA allows that work too be used for multiple purposes unless otherwise stated in the requirement.

 

There are millions of youth who do nothing to help others, let's celebrate the Scouts efforts in numerous ways if possible.

 

 

B:)b White

[PNScouter]

I had the same question come up with God & Country service time. Bob, I like your thought here. Ive got guys in OA, working on God & Country, and trying to advance. That could add up to a lot of hours if you didnt double dip somewhere along the line.

[eagleSM]

 

great question, acco40. certainly, for the most part, what you will get will be humble opinions. here's mine:

 

1.OA . Nope. OA is a service org.

 

2.Loading popcorn. Hmmm. a little tougher, becasue he is doing it as an OA member. still, No. same as above.

 

3.Show & Sell - No. anything that puts $'s into a Scouts pocket is not a service project, IMHO.

 

4.Yes. a Scout is Reverent. anything a Scout does to serve God gets an A+ in my book.

 

5.Yes. same as above. as far as time frames, i give credit in 1/4 hour time increments.

 

NWScouter suggest the Scouts get prior approval. i agree. no sense in a boy performing a task (specifically for rank advancement service hours) if the Scoutmaster isnt going to approve it (and of course, it is stated in the requirment). as for confirmation, as SM, i require all scouts to have written verification that such a service was performed. many times, i will help the scout write out the verification to be signed by others, prior to his service project.

 

as to Uncleguinea's comment to subjectivity, i agree. its nice to see different opinions, minus the recent flames i have seen posted.

 

as far as "credit twice" there are numerous examples of this happening (Swimming MB, First Aid MB, etc., requirments used toward First Class Rank).

 

these are of course, only the opinion of one fat, old, grey-haired SM...

 

eSM

 

[acco40]

Thanks to all for your opinions {although eagleSM, I'm not sure all opinions were humble }.

 

I talked with my district advancement chair to get his opinion too. He stated to me that he would not count as service hours activities that are normally expected of a Scout as part of his school, religious or community activities. I specifically asked about work performed during an Order of the Arrow Ordeal weekend, serving as an usher at church, serving as an altar boy at church, and performing service as part of a confirmation requirement. He stated that while the Scoutmaster has the authority to accept or not accept these tasks, he would not count these items. His reasoning is that for the OA Ordeal, that was an expected part of the Ordeal experience. Serving as an usher or altar server is an expected part of religious activities. He also stated that service that is counted for something else (i.e. confirmation) should not be counted as service for the BSA. His words, "No double dipping." However, the most important thing that he stressed is that whatever criteria a Scoutmaster uses, he should be consistent.

 

Now, for myself, I've asked, not required mind you, Scouts to inform me of service work they plan on doing before they commence. That way, I can talk with the boys about it and see how they view it. I've decided to have no blanket rule about "double dipping" but I will have this caveat. If the Scout performs service only because he "had to" for some other requirement, I don't believe I'll count it for Scouts either. If the Scout did it for the purpose of helping others and because of other reasons (confirmation project, Scout requirements, etc.) I'll count it. To determine the intent, I'll need to get with the Scout to discuss the service. I'll need to make a judgement call about what the Scout got out of the experience. If it was just a "ticket punch" effort, he may be out of luck.

 

Thanks again for all of your input. Yes it is nice that the BSA gives us some leeway or subjectivity on these issues, but it does put us on the hot seat once in a while.

[eagleSM]

acco40:

 

wise words, whether one agrees or disagress with you and your D.Adv.Chair.

 

suffice to say, and to quote the 1959 SM Handbook:

 

"In back of every word and picture in this book lies the experience of thousands of men who have served as Scoutmasters during the past half century.

 

It is our hope that the book will help you find deep satisfaction in your work as Scoutmaster as you bring significant experiences and values into the lives of boys"

 

and to quote one of my favorite SM's, when i left my post as ASM to become SM:

 

"There can only be one Scoutmaster"

 

Good Scouting,

 

eSM

 

 

 

 

 

[Sandyt888]

How about this situation:

A 12 yr old scout needs 1 more hr for star. He repeatedly comes to the SM stating he "did this at school, does it count?" He acts as den chief and attended cub scout roundup - and after asks if it counts? He's also newly elected scribe and attended Troop JLT. As part of the day's activities, we were asked to haul branches around the yard of the scout house to the street. He doesn't put in much effort. He states the only reason he attended the campout was to get his 1 hr service for rank advancement. SM turned it down. Should it count?

[acco40]

SHould it count? No, not if the Scoutmaster did not approve it. Should the Scoutmaster have approved of the service? That is entirely differennt question.

 

I don't count time serving as den chief as service. That is part of the responsibility. His work as Troop Scribe and JLT are duitesand training, not service.

 

What the Scoutmaster would love to see is for the young man to approach him and ask what service does the troop have on tap in the immediate future and if none exist, ask to work with his patrol to come up with a service project that they can accomplish.

 

Scoutmasters generally do not like to be approached after the fact about work done at school, church, etc. and asked "Does it count?"

 

[Hunt]

I've been thinking about the "double dipping" question--I tend to agree with Bob White, that we should recognize service without placing a lot of limitations on it. But I have some questions.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, the school system here requires a certain number of "service learning hours" for graduation. Although the kids "have" to do this, I would have no problem counting these hours toward any Scout requirements as well.

On the other hand, what about something like the Reading Merit Badge, which includes (as an option, I think) volunteering in the local public library? Would you allow a Scout to count this for both the MB and the rank requirement? Similarly, what about the "conservation project" that is part of the Camping MB? My inclination would be not to allow double dipping for these, but I'm not sure--maybe it would depend on how many hours were spent?

[acco40]

First, our troop offers multiple opportunities for advancement. We have a couple of boys in our troop who never seem to participate in patrol or troop service activities. However, their parents continuously complain that I don't count the "service" their son performs. Forget the fact that I have not been told of the service by the Scout, I have no dates, no verification, etc. The parents harumph that I should just mark it down because a Scout is trustworthy and I should trust their Scout.

 

I don't have a problem with counting service performed outside of a troop or patrol setting but I would like to be informed of the service by the Scout in question (not his parents), have accurate dates, times, etc. On the Eagle service project, one requirement is that the work/leadership performed should be indicative of the Scout's best effort. In a similar vein, I like to see some effort put forth by the Scout with his service hours for Star and Life.

[evmori]

While service hours and merit badge requirements aren't mutually exclusive, I feel they should not cross. Service hours for rank should be used for service to others without being required for anything else.

 

And I think community service is very important. I feel, however, school districts requiring community service for graduation cheapen community service.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Ed, I am confused,

 

One of the reasons the BSA has service hour requirements is because we want to expose the scouts to the value of service, to let them experience how good it feels to help someone else and to be exposed to a whole new world of people beyond their normal comfort zone, why shouldn't the oft-critized ( and with some good reasons) school systems do the same thing?)