Eagle Project benefits a business - sort of

[evmori]

Troop attention!

Hand salute!

 

"I pledge .............

[Fuzzy Bear]

We love a good rant better than football!

[Bob White]

Wolfpack, Are you suggesting that "creativity" is now an Eagle Scout requirement?

[FScouter]

So erecting a flag pole is not a worthy project? Dont knock it if you havent tried it. Hmm.

So the boy wants to erect a flag pole? Piece of cake?

 

Where do I get a flag pole? (do some research, make some phone calls, ask some people, knock on doors where flag poles already exist)

Do I build it, or buy it ready-made?

What shall I use to build it? Steel pipe? Aluminum tubing? What gauge? What alloy? How big a flag must the pole support? (talk to an engineer)

How do I pay for it? (organize fundraising)

Its being delivered by truck. Whos going to be there to unload it and sign the bill of lading?

Its been delivered and is lying on the ground. Now what?

Dig a hole. How deep? How wide? Who has a shovel?

Does the pole need to be set in concrete?

Where do I get concrete? Mix it by hand? How much cement, sand, gravel? Where do I get those materials?

The pole is lying on the ground. How do I lift it up and put it in the hole? Its 40 feet long and weighs a ton. Maybe we could use our pioneering and engineering skills to build some rigging.

We get it in the hole. Is it vertical? How to tell? How to keep it vertical while the concrete is poured?

Oops. Forgot to rig the halyard. How do I get it through the pulley now?

 

Erecting a flag pole could be a major project. It could be a minor chore if all the boy does is call the flag pole company and arrange to have a pole installed.

 

The worthiness of an eagle project is in the plan of action, and in the leadership required to implement the plan.

 

[Eamonn]

Hi Wolfpack,

Welcome to the forums. I feel really bad that I have to say that I disagree with you.

From the posting we have no idea what the plans for this Flag Pole are. Also if the school was asked "What do you really need?" and the answer was "We need a flag pole!" That has to carry a lot of weight. -It does to my way of thinking.

The project is an exercise of Leadership not construction!!

I can rant and rave about how mad I get hearing that Eagle Projects are not what they used to be. At times it is like an old long playing record that has got stuck. We don't know anything about the Scout, the project, the area,and I could go on.

Only tonight a Scoutmaster came up to me and said that his son was painting the Helli-pad at the local hospital as his Eagle project. Sure it sounds a lot more exciting then a flag pole might sound. I have seen the really special projects that when finished look great. But when I look at the report the work has been done by a Father and Son team - Give me the Flag pole that a Scout has used the skills of leadership any day.

As for the profit and non profit stuff.

I need some help here.

Somewhere under this gray thatch I remember that a community of some sort contracted out their schools. I am unsure if it was a town, a city or a state? (I also remember that it didn't work out as well as had been hoped)

The Schools still had the same kids.

Property owners still paid school taxes.

The money from the taxes were paid to the company that was contracted to educate the kids.

The buildings were still owned by the school district. I feel sure that if a appropriate Eagle Scout leadership project came along, there would be no hesitation in passing it.

We also need to be very careful when looking at non-profit organizations. Just because something costs a lot does not mean that there is money going into the coffers of someone.

I am employed by the Senior Living Division of the University Of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Our residents pay a lot more then $3,600 a month. We are non-profit. We do try to break about even at the end of the year.However $7.00 an hour which includes nursing care,meals, house keeping,building maintenance,Van transportation, activities and entertainment along with the services of a really good looking Dietitian!! Can only go so far. And yes we have had Scouts do service projects and Eagle Leadership projects. The residents love to see young people around the place. Be they Cub Scouts delivering easter cards or singing Christmas carols. Boy Scouts doing Flag ceremonies. Or using the raised flower beds that a Scout built as an Eagle project.

Why are the Scouts doing so much in this place? Because they are welcome there. (It is not in the District in which I serve.) Sure the Director has a son that is an Eagle Scout. Sure she is married to a nice chap who is a Bishop in the LDS Church and there is a troop there.

Still it isn't all one sided I know of a District Chairman that just happened to leave a stack of FOS pamphlets in the reception area. You should have seen the face of the District Chairman of that District when he was given almost $2,000.00. The home is in his District - Drat.

Eamonn

[johndaigler]

Eamonn - I know I'm focusing on the wrong part of your post, but the Eagle and his Dad painted a big circle and an "H"?????

 

I guess I'm just thinking about this all wrong . . .

 

I always thought the Eagle's project was kind of a culminating effort, displaying growth that only came with sincere effort and exploration in the variety of areas Scouting offers achievements, opportunities and experiences. I know it's not intended to showcase "Scout" skills, that's not what I'm saying. But if it can be planned in a day, and completed in a day . . . ? ? ?

 

I know this is gonna sound rude, but this painting seems more in line with the expectations I have for my Wolves when we go looking for worthwhile service opportunities!??????

 

I'm not old enough to tell you how it was back in the day (at least, that's the story I'm sticking with!!), but what the heck are these boys gonna be saying about back in their day and what's gonna pass for an Eagle project when my sons are finally (still a few years away) teenagers????

 

jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

[Eamonn]

John

I wasn't very clear.

This was a SM telling me what his son planned to do. He has yet to meet with anyone from the advancement committee. My real job is just to chair a meeting once a month?

Eamonn

[Hunt]

As I've thought more about this, I'm more convinced that this is not a good project. First, I think that reading the Eagle requirement and the workbook together (which you have to do, because the requirement says you MUST use the workbook), the limitation on projects benefitting a business eliminates the for-profit school. At best, there is an ambiguity that an interpreter would have to resolve by looking at the intent of the requirement. And the intent is that the project benefit organizations that do not operate for profit. If the for-profit school "needs" a flagpole, it can reduce its profits slightly and pay for it. What if the school "needs" a Jacuzzi for the teacher's lounge? I think we're a little distracted by the fact that this is a flagpole, which seems to benefit the community more than a Jacuzzi. I don't see a big difference between putting up a flagpole for a for-profit school and putting one up for a car dealership.

[SR540Beaver]

E,

 

A scout is loyal. I hope that dietician you find so attractive is "she who must be obeyed"!

[scoutldr]

IF the helipad was already in use, then "painting the H" is routine maintenance. Doesn't qualify.

[evmori]

..... and to the republic .............

[johndaigler]

If the Helipad is "ALREADY IN USE" (!!!!!!!!) then I'd disqualify the project on POOR PLANNING, but the challenge factor goes WAAAAAYYYYY UUUUUPPPP!!!!!!!!!

[Eamonn]

I have a picture in my minds eye of a Scout who looks like Radar from the TV serious MASH.

Eamonn

[boleta]

The 2004 Boy Scout Requirements book supercedes all other sources for advancement requirements, including the Boy Scout Handbook and the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook. The ESLSPW must be used but the 2004 Requirements MUST be followed as they are the Official Requirements.

 

This book states:

While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community.

 

 

 

Now Ladies and Gentlemen, The flagpole and its beneficiary are fine and fit the requirements. If this project came before me at the Troop Committee, I would ask the Scout to consider adding landscaping of the approach to the area, a bench and guard rails or ropes to set the area off- only if this was OK with the institution benefitting from the project. The project can be made as hard or easy as the committee desires. The point is to develop leadership in the Scout and to push him to handle the changes that occur in any project.

[johndaigler]

boleta -

 

How can the 2004 "Requirements" supercede the ESLSPW when they specifically Require the Scout to use the ESLSPW??

 

From the ESLSPW>>>>>

"The Requirement

As stated in the Boy Scout Handbook: While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to your religious institution, school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than the BSA.) The project idea must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your unit leader (Scoutmaster, Varsity Scout Coach, Venturing crew Advisor), unit committee, and by the council or district advancement committee before you start. You must use this Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, No. 18-927D, in meeting this requirement.

 

Originality

Does the leadership service project for Eagle have to be original, perhaps something you dream up that has never been done before? The answer: No, but it certainly could be. You may pick a project that has been done before, but you must accept responsibility for planning, directing, and following through to its successful completion.

 

Limitations

Routine labor (a job or service normally rendered) should not be considered. Work involving council property or other BSA activity is not permitted. The project also may not be performed for a business or an individual, be of a commercial nature, or be a fund-raiser. (Fund-raising is permitted only for securing materials or supplies needed to carry out your project.)