Eagle Project benefits a business - sort of

[Bob White]

The intent of the writer is not relevent. The Handbook used several writers. Is it your suggestion that their intent of each individual contributor needs to be understood for a scout to use the information in the handbook????

 

So if Lockheed builds a building can a flag pole be erected as an Eagle project? Maybe. You never said what the building was used for. If it is an office buliding, then no. A Manufacturing facility, no. A school..Yes.

 

The intent of the writer is not relevant. The Handbook used several writers. Is it your suggestion that their intent of each individual contributor needs to be understood for a scout to use the information in the handbook????

 

The Handbook reflects the intent of the BSA and that is all the scout needs to satisfy.

 

So if Lockheed builds a building can a flag pole be erected as an Eagle project? Maybe. You never said what the building was used for. If it is an office building, then no. A Manufacturing facility, no. A schoolYes.

 

Remember the location is just part of the application. The scout still has other requirements to meet. But you cannot turn it down based on being at a for-profit school when the requirement says ANY school.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[scoutldr]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree until someone calls National for an interpretation. Until then, it's just opinions and one is just as correct as the other.

 

When two BSA publications have conflicting information, what is the Scout to do? In most cases, the District Advancement Chair will make a decision and everyone gets on with their lives.

 

In my mind, yes the Scout Handbook is the Scout's reference, until he makes Life, then he is given amplifying information, to wit, the "Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook" which he is supposed to use in planning and fleshing out his project. On page two, it quotes the requirement from the Handbook...omitting the word "any" before "school". It clearly states "no businesses". It has a 2003 copyright date. If I were a DAC, the reference with the latest copyright date would win.

[FScouter]

We have a boy that wants to build a flag pole for a school. Kids in the community will salute the flag every day. There will be a brass plaque on the flag pole that will give credit to a Boy Scout. In perpetuity the world will know that a Boy Scout did a good thing here. This is good.

 

Dont get hung up on the word business. Everything is a business. Define a business. A public school is has revenue, employees, payroll, expenses, fixed assets, land, buildings, a board of directors, and provides a service to the community. Id call that a business. A church has revenues, employees, payroll, expenses, fixed assets, land, buildings, a board of directors, and provides a service to the community. Id call that a business too.

 

Determine whether the project primarily benefits the community at large, or primarily benefits only an individual.

[Hunt]

I don't know about this--while the requirement does refer to "any" school, it also says you "must" use the Workbook, which says the project "may not" benefit a "business." Essentially, the Eagle requirement incorporates by reference the requirements in the Workbook, so referring to them doesn't add or subtract anything. Reading those together, it seems to me a natural reading would be that a project could not benefit a for-profit school, because it's a "business." I can see the other argument, but it's really a matter of interpretation. To argue by analogy, the requirement allows a scout to do a project that benefits "the community." Surely all would agree that he can't do a project that primarily benefits a business, even if it also benefits the community? (I.e., landscaping and beautifying a factory's grounds surely would not qualify, even if it enhanced the beauty of the community.)

[evmori]

Any school means any school!

 

Seems pretty simple to me and a decent project, too!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[johndaigler]

To compare public schools to private school enterprises is a loooooong stretch. Use of the word "business" for both cases can't be seen to compare the two in any useful way.

 

The fact that this Scout's "organization in need" doesn't have a flag pole speaks a great deal to the variety of private schools in this country. It seems hard to believe that we would see convincing a "school" that it needs a flag pole is worthy of being an Eagle Project.

 

What, BTW, has this "school" organization been thinking up to this point??

 

I agree that the Scout needs to be redirected for his project. The gray areas of "appropriateness" are moot, in this instance.

 

[Bob White]

I am unaware that the scout's need to, or ability to, "convince" someone to accept his help was an element in the Eagle scout requirements. Is that a recent addition?

 

My understanding was that a school needs one and the scout was planning, developing, and giving leadership to others to install one. All in accordance with the requirements.

[johndaigler]

BW -

 

I'm not trying to disagree - especially about semantics or sarcasm - all I mean, is that, depending upon which resource, which interpretation, which "spirit and intent" we subsribe to, it might be difficult to suggest that any Eagle's project plan be redesigned or redirected.

 

AND, that I was disappointed that ANY school didn't already have a flag pole and needed a Scout's help to realize they needed to put one up.

 

IMHO, this Scout should be redirected.

[acco40]

I have a Life Scout who wants to throw worms into the lake to benefit a SCHOOL of (non-BSA) fish. Because I don't want to try and interpret the intent of the authors, I okay the Scouts project. (This message has been edited by acco40)

[Noah]

Hello,

 

Just to clarify. The question on the project was not whether it could benefit a private or a public school - but whether it could benefit a school that is organized as a for-profit business.

 

Everything, including Scout councils and units, is operated as a business. Most businesses are for the purpose of making money and are a commercial for-profit organization. Every private school I have run into, until this one, has been a non-profit corporation - that is a 501©(3) corporation registered with the IRS for public benefit. The goal of a non-profit is not to provide value to shareholders but rather to the public at large.

 

-Noah

[Fuzzy Bear]

A wooden interpretation of each and every word is like allowing a non-citizen, non-English speaking person translate for you. About half of each phrase will be missed, as has been demonstrated in this case. The intent is what the person is attempting to communicate and the basis of the actual meaning.

 

FB

 

[Bob White]

Could the intent be that if a school full of children benefit from an Eagle Scout project then who cares if a few adults benefir as well.

 

What is the need to second guess something as clear as any school?

[scoutldr]

Because another BSA publication contradicts that. And it is equally clear.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I believe that the we are all out of gas, so now we get out and walk. If anybody sees a flagpole, don't tell me.

 

 

[wolfpack1369]

I'm am posting this message to voice my concerns on this eagle project . I myself am an Eagle Scout . Not only does this project not fit in to the scouting requirement of helping a buisness . It lacks the imagination that makes an Eagle Scout project something special . I'm very suprised that the S.M. or Advancemnt Chairman of his troop let it get to you in the first place . I'm not trying to be rude to anyone , but as an Eagle i fine projects that allow the boy to slide through looks bad to the whole of scouts . I'm sorry about the rant . But i really hope you listen to all the comments I've read on the page and disapprove this application .

 

 

 

TY,

DGL