Minimum Age for Eagle Rank

[Eamonn]

The rule is wrong. It will never stand up to a appeal if one was made to National. You might want to have a word with the Council Advancement Chair. He needs to put this guy back on the right track.

I have no idea where people come up with this stuff? I wonder, do they wake up one day and say to themselves "Hey I have nothing to do today. What shall I do today? I know - I think that I will rewrite the programs of the Boy Scouts Of America!! OK -I'll start with the uniforms - No need for them pants, heck I'm not keen on the socks. Next I'll take on the advancement. When I was a Scout, we did REAL SCOUTING. For my project we built ten city parks, we carried all the material by hand uphill through the snow and we were so poor that..."

There are some Scouts who whiz through the requirements, some start off with a sprint and slow down and some never make it to the rank of Eagle Scout. This doesn't make them any less of a Scout. Many of the best Leaders that I know only made it to Life Scout.

I would be very tempted to grab a big pair of scissors and threaten to cut this guys Wood Badge off unless he gets with the program and sticks to the program.

Eamonn.

[wojauwe]

 

I understand the frustration that would drive a leader to put an age requirement on Eagle.As has been stated,no can do.

My main concern has always been that boys are makeing it to Eagle without ever showing any leadership.

One of the big problems I've seen is that the way the rules are written a boy has fullfilled the leadership requirements as long as he was on the books as a leader.Many times the boy never did the job.

Something we attempted when I was advancement chair was to

give the PLC and Scoutmaster the option to take a person out of a leadership job if they are not doing at least the minimum.

Age isn't always a good measuring stick.Actions are.

We weren't able to get my system working very well,but I thought if it was done well we could hold boys to a little higher standard for advancement.

Philosophies change,I'm not as involved in the troop right now and We have a very aggressive AC and she's turning troop into an Eagle mill.I was appalled last night at Committee meeting when she complained about lack of positions for people

to use for advancements.She suggested that we add a second

Chaplain's assistant.In our troop this position involves putting together Sunday chapel at monthly campout.

It's hard for me to take pride in the number of Eagles coming from troop when it's being made so easy.It's not fair to the boys to get the Eagle Badge without becoming an Eagle.

It's more common to hear a boy speak of how easy it was than to hear them talk about the challenges they overcame and the things they learned.

[Eamonn]

Me thinks we have passed this way before.

Trying to slow a Scout down by using sly or back-door tactics is just as wrong as doing it out in the open.The Eagle rank belongs to the Scout, not the troop or the Leaders. When all is said and done each Scout will know in his heart if he really met the requirements or not.Surely it is our job as adults in Scouting to help and support each Scout in his efforts?

When it comes to Leadership or positions of responsibility. There has to be a meeting of the minds. We understand that in any POR or Leadership position that there is an expectation of getting the job done. It falls on us as adults to train and support each Scout to help him get the job done. We are there to work with each individual Scout and help him set goals and do everything we can to help him meet these goals. Some Scouts will need a lot of help and support while others will not need any.

Sure a 13 year old SPL will need a lot more help then a 17 year old. But each and every Scout has different needs and that is why we are there.

I agree that making up titles for meaningless POR's is not helping anyone. Again this comes down to people wanting to re-write the Scouting program to suit or fit their own wants and needs. Again this is not being done by the Scout. In fact a miss use of the program like this could if it was brought out at an Eagle Scout BOR be grounds for the Scout not completing the board.

If I was on the board and found out that a troop was miss using the program in such a way. You can be sure that the advancement chair in the unit would benefit from my understanding of the program and how they had let the Scout down.

Eamonn.

[wojauwe]

Eamonn

I'm sorry but expecting a boy to do something more than wear

a patch in order to get his leadership requirement is not exactly a sly or back door tactic for slowing a boy's advancement.

This boils down to fullfilling the requirement no more no less.

no judgement of quality of leadership is involved,but it

would be nice if a patrol leader showed up at PLC,s or arranged for a proxy if he can't make it.

It's always a learning process and all I ask is that they make an effort.

[FScouter]

"It falls on us as adults to train and support each Scout to help him get the job done."

 

Life would be easy if boy leaders were enthusiastic, capable, effective leaders right out of the box. Since they are not, we Scoutmasters are obligated to do our primary function: train boy leaders.

 

A boy that coasts through a 6-month stint in a leadership position and does nothing did not do his job. Neither did we.

[wojauwe]

 

Like I said the boy needs to at least show up.You can't help them if they are not there.We have not done our duty if we allow credit without any effort.Definitely we need to help and support,I never implied otherwise.We do JLT training in troop

we always talk with our youth leaders to help them out.

If the scout makes the minimum effort of being there he has all of the help he could use.

[wojauwe]

 

I want to point out that the situations I've been addressing

are but a small portion of boys.I see many successes as well.

I've been concerned when some boys were elected,then I watch

as the boy shows amazing growth and maturity.

[Eamonn]

I think that I said that making up meaningless titles for positions of responsibility is wrong.

Maybe I ought to have added that any meaningless title is wrong.

Yes I have seen troops with four or five ASPLS and these are troops that don't use the patrol method.

However we as adults are there to help the Scout reach his goal. Before a Scout runs for an office or agrees to take on a POR. He meets with the SM who explains what the job is. The Scout knows what is expected of him. If the troop meeting is on Monday and the Scout knows that for the next six months he is busy doing something on Mondays, he really isn't a candidate for SPL. Maybe he could still do the job of Quartermaster or be a Den Chief. We work with each Scout to help him reach his goals no matter what age he is.

Eamonn.

[Fat Old Guy]

"I think that I said that making up meaningless titles for positions of responsibility is wrong."

 

So you don't approve of my troop calling the ASPL the Snurrflehokoer?

[pepper]

Making up rules is sometimes a problem in Boy Scouts. How about a scout master who says you have to be a life scout to be an spl or aspl. How about him picking the patrol leaders, using the excuse that the boys are not ready to be leaders yet, instead of helping the boys learn the leadership by doing? What about skipping SPL elections because the scoutmaster either doesn't want to train a new leader or he likes the job the current SPL is doing? What about having a family being in charge of planning an outing (like cub scouts) instead of the scouts themselves? What about having only scout master and assistant scout masters signing off requirements instead of star scouts and above? Some people like to make it up as they go.

[LPC_Thumper]

I have a question about Pepper's post (which except for my question I think was well written).

 

I didn't think that boys could sign off advancement sine the late 80's. Did I miss something here, and have been doing things wrong for 20 years? I thought boys could (and frankly SHOULD) teach skills, but as far as actually demonstrating the skill, that is only done by a Scoutmaster, or an Assisstant Scoutmaster.

 

I'm not trying to be arugmentative, I'm trying to learn. Could someone quote chapter and verse for me, simply because I'm pulling this from my readings of the Scoutmaster Handbook, and the Advancement Committee Handbook, and this is what I understand.

 

Thanks!

 

BTW, as the person that has had this role for the past 10 years, I have NEVER told a scout he couldn't get Eagle when he was ready. But on the other hand he doesn't get the "You are too smart, and have worked too hard to stop now" speech until he has his 17th birthday. My son was only Star for 2 days longer than minimum time (he had enough Merit Badges before he got his Star to make Life, so only needed the time requirements and the Actvities, PoR, SP etc) but was Life for 3 years.

[dan]

The SM handbook says that whoever the SM says can sign off on the requirements can. Do not remember the page number, and I am going from my memory.

I do have a very good memory, it is just not very long.

[EagleInKY]

I believe the approval subject has been discussed several times. I allow any scout to teach the skills. Boys in positions (PL, SPL, Troop Guide) can sign off on a skill. Adult leaders can as well. I, or another adult, have final say (although I have never questioned a youth leader's signoff).

 

Many of pepper's questions are valid. However, another one he missed on is the one about setting standards for positions of responsibility. The SM Handbook says that troops can set standards for positions. I don't have it with me and I don't remember if it specifies whether it is the PLC or SM responsibility.

[prouddad]

Dear Gardyloo,

 

A scout in our Troop had a similar situation. Our scoutmaster would not give him a scoutmaster Conference for Eagle because of his age. He had been at almost every scouting event for 2 years, held several positions (Bugler, Patrol Leader, Den Chief and Guide). In my capacity as Advancement Chair of our Troop, I started a thread on this site, spoke to more experienced scouters and called Irving Texas. The person to whom I spoke in Irving essentially said: "We worked real hard to set the requirements for Eagle, we would appreciate it if you did not change them". It is the Scout spirit and the ability of the Scout that controls - not age. After discussion with our district advancement chair and others, I suggested that he approach the Scoutmaster again to discuss the Eagle Requirements. Ultimately he had the SM conference and passed his Board of Review in July (his 14th birthday is in September).

 

Good Luck. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[jstrainer]

I have 2 sons that are very different. The oldest is your average teenager that is finally getting is eagle. We turned his packet in the day before his 18th birthday. My youngest is 13 and turn 14 in December. He is very self-motivated and is goal driven. I give him the opportunity to achieve his goals by taking him where he needs to go and paying for his materials and classes. He is active in our church, Pre AP classes(Advanced)in school and keeps straight A's, raises animals for FFA in school and strives for all 121 merit badges. What we as leaders and parentsneed to remember is that the scout will and should be able to advance at HIS pace, not what any adult thinks is best. These boys are not clones and they are not the same. Some are very driven and by slowing them down all we do to them is a disservice by imposing our believes and views of what is right and can in many cases hurt them severly without knowing it.