Minimum Age for Eagle Rank

[Gardyloo]

My son's troop has an Eagle Counselor who has created a rule that a Boy must be 16 years old before he can start his Eagle Scout project. He's also the new Eagle Projects Coordinator for the District.

 

Is there such a rule? My son has seen 15 year old Eagles at camp.

[acco40]

YOu say that the Eagle counselor has created such a rule - so yes such a rule exists. Is it correct? No. Is it in violation of BSA policy? Yes. Is it adding to requirements? Yes.

 

It is just another case, of many, of adults trying to "tailor" the program to what they think it should be. Just remind the counselor that the BSA program is what it is and that he has not authority to change it. Good luck.

 

 

[torribug]

Gardyloo,

We just kind of hashed something like this in the "Changing Hearts and Minds" thread. You might want to read all of that thread, because the guys (gals, too, maybe?) gave me a bunch of GREAT information.

 

BUG

[Fat Old Guy]

As much as many of us would like to see some sort of throttle in the systme to prevent parents from pushing their sons to be Eagles by twelve, it isn't in the rules.

 

About the only thing that can be used to slow down the Eagle race is the project. If one was of a mind to, the committee could just disapprove all projects proposals from young Scouts. However, that would be more than a bit dishonest.

 

In olden days, you could only work on one rank at a time which meant that you had to earn T-foot, then 2nd Class, and finally First Class in order. That slowed down the process. Over the years, BSA also had restrictions on when Scouts could start earning merit badges.

 

Now, things have changed. Even though BSA gives lip service to the idea that Advancement isn't a goal, they've made 1st Class absurdly easy to get. Couple this with the parents who are frantic to have their kids "earn" Eagle before they start to drive and you have a mess and an advancement race.

 

Things happen like kids taking positions that they really don't want because "they need them to advance." You have parents that pressure Scoutmasters to have Scouts bumped out of positions because "someone else needs the slot."

 

It's a mess but it's one that we have to live with.

 

[evmori]

acco40 is right on the money. I defy this Eagle Counselor to produce something from ANY BSA publication to verify what is is doing is within the BSA rules and not adding to the requirements!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Gardyloo]

Thanks for the tip, Bug. I'll definitely take a look.

 

We've seen the Eagle race in our troop, FOG. I think "the rule" was put in place because we recently had a kid whose parents were pushing him really hard to be an Eagle at 15. Reportedly at his Life BoR he said he was only doing his rank to get his parents off his back (my DH was there).

 

Our son is a little different. We suggested he wait and give himself some time before he moved from Star to Life, but he wanted that rank, and got it 6 months after Star. He's slowed down a bit now, and spent his summer as a camp CIT (loves it). I had to bite my cheek not to laugh when he told us about his frustration with the scouts who wanted him to check off a requirement they hadn't completed.

 

I could tell from his phone call last week that he's charged up and is ready to earn those last two Eagle MB's.

 

The backlash from this other kid's attitude and "the Rule", is some of the teen scouts age 13-15 are saying since the rule is in place, and they can't start their project, they'll wait awhile to work on their Eagle MB's.

 

I think boys start finding other activities more interesting at about age 16 (girls and cars to be specific); and waiting until then to start the MB's is a big mistake.

 

How does a troop deal with both the "pushy parent scout" and the "overachieving push himself scout"?

 

Being a Boy Scout is great for our son. It's helped him grow in so many ways.

[scoutldr]

I was recently the District Rep for a 13 year old's Eagle Board. There was no question that the young man had met the requirements. Yes, he was an "overachieving push himself" person. But he was like that in every aspect of his life, excelling in academics, church, and sports, as well. Where he found the time, I don't know, but that's not my business. As the BOR, we did our best to impress upon him to stay in scouting and enjoy the rest of the journey. As the other guys said, this unit leader is way out of line imposing a minimum age. If need be, I would speak quietly to the District Commissioner or District Advancement Chairman, so he can be discreetly shown the error of his ways. He is doing a disservice to the program as well as the youths with this arbitrary "rule".

[acco40]

"In olden days, you could only work on one rank at a time which meant that you had to earn T-foot, then 2nd Class, and finally First Class in order." Today, you still have to earn the ranks in "proper" order. However, one can fulfill a 2nd Class rank requirement before earning the rank of Tenderfoot.

 

As Scoutmaster I deal with a few families that have a Scout who is very happy to advance at his own pace but who has a parent or parents who push - both him and me, for rapid advancement. The problem is theirs, not ours. Deal with the parents in private. I've had families leave the troop because I would not "guarantee" advancement. The thought that advancement is up to the Scout was foreign to them. As for self motivated (overachieving push himself Scout), that is not a problem in my book. Unless the Scout is trying to get requirements signed off that he is not really fulfilling, I see no problem.

 

I have two sons who have advanced very rapidly - one made Life four months after he turned 12. Now, he had been in the troop for over 2.5 years by then (young for his school age) but still it was fairly rapid progress. He will turn 14 next week and he is - still Life! Fine with me, fine with him. Well, to be honest, his mother keeps bugging him about finishing up his MBs and starting his project but that is another story. My other son, who is twelve, is currently a Star and very close to Life. He has not missed one meeting, one outing, one service project, one ANYTHING in his year an a half of Boy Scouts. I'm very proud of both. Each has had the luxury of having a good friend (and former den mate in Cubs) to "compete" with for rank advancement. Peer pressure CAN be a good thing. There are currently no Eagles in the troop for them to compare with so after obtaining Life the peer pressure has eased forthe older one. In actuality, there are two Eagles but they are both in the over 35 age group!

 

There is something to be said about earning Eagle before the gasoline, girls and other things kick in. I've noticed a spike in earning Eagle right before or right at 16 and then again right before 18 for obvious reasons. That's life.

[EagleInKY]

Yes, this subject has been hashed and rehashed. I'm in the "wish they would take their time camp", but I don't believe in putting in arbitrary rules.

 

Take for instance, a young lad that graduated from our pack into another troop 2 years ago. He's completed his Eagle project and is getting ready for his BOR. Now, I firmly believe that this boy is not deserving of the award and know that his parents pushed, coddled and even did work for him along the way. When he was in Cub Scouts, his parents talked about how he was more mature than others (even though he cried when he didn't get his way). They also talked about how they wanted him to get his Eagle quickly, because he was talking about quitting scouts (this was when he was a Webelos!).

 

In our troop, we handled it like this. At parent's orientation, I give my philosophy about the subject. I share with them the goal of teaching them scouting skills during the first year, so they can then turn around and be teachers to the next group of boys coming up. I also have a "roadmap", if you will, that describes an optimal pace to Eagle. First Class during the first year, Star during the second year, Life during the 3rd, and Eagle during the 4th or 5th. This requires them to earn 2-3 Eagle MBs a year, and should allow them to complete it prior to getting their Driver's license. Most parents find it helpful. So far, I have not run into any of these "rush to Eagle" parents. Maybe I scare them away at the orientation. Nevertheless, I hope it continues to work for us.

[BPwannabe@137]

There is no age requirement set by national. However..................

 

When I was a scout (in the 80's) I never met another scout who recieved their Eagle before they were 17. You earned your badges, served time in leadership positions, entered the leadership corps (still one of the best programs for older scouts) and finally earned the Eagle when you were a JASM. Now I see scouts getting Eagle at 12 and 13. I don;t think they mentally comprehend the meaning of the rank and alot of times, have most of the work done for them. (There are exceptions of course.) But when they make Eagle, they drop out. Earning Eagle at such a young age is fine if they scout is then moving on to a higher award, such as Venturing Silver or Sea Scout Quartermaster, but how often does that happen.

 

I wonder if the scoutmaster conference would serve as the test strip for this problem??

 

 

[BPwannabe@137]

TYPO ALERT>>>TYPO ALERT>>>

 

before anyone jumps down my throat...I didn;t mean Quartermaster or Silver were higher awards then Eagle. I should have said highest awards in other programs (although as an Eagle scout myself, I am still very impressed whenever I meet a Quartermaster-since I never made it higher then Apprentance myself.

[EagleInKY]

BP - No can-do. Look at the problems experienced by GoodKidsMom.

 

No, the problem is in our culture and the headlong rush to be "the best", which, to many parents, means be the fastest on earth to ever earn the Eagle rank.

 

It reminds me of the joke about two athletes that each put in their contract that they had to make $1 more than the next highest paid person in their league. Of course, their salaries go up infinitely. Some parents are that way, "my boy earned Eagle at 12 yrs and 348 days". "My boy earned it at 12 years and 346 days". And so on.

[BadenP]

Good points mentioned here, there is no official rule as to age limit for eagle. However, in my experience I have found very few 13 yr old scouts really prepared to receive their eagle rank, they are the exception not the rule. I have seen 13 yr old scouts who were not prepared, as I sat on the District BOR for four years, who were being pushed through by mom and dad. Many of these cases were sadly from LDS troops, and more than half were denied as they were not prepared. It would be nice to see the BSA set some minimum standards, such as not having summer camps that are nothing more than merit badge mills. I think this would give the boys a more complete scouting experience. The current ideology seems to be in a lot of units to get the eagle ASAP because they will probably drop out by age 15. The result has been the phenomenon of the "paper eagle" with just a superficial understanding of scouting, and signed off by poorly trained scout leaders. The honor of becoming an Eagle Scout seems to have become a race to mediocrity by both National and many scout leaders.

[BPwannabe@137]

OK-if we can't rely on the scoutmaster conference, then lets hope that the advancement chair can figure out this problem. Wait, isn't that the initial problem that started this topic. Darn, foiled again!

 

Totally agree with you on the second point. Kids are actually being taught that you need to do it now, immediately, and fast. Its the era of instant gratification. I had a Webelo's Dad who couldn't understand that you shouldn't finish all the activity pins in the first half of webelos 1.

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Before changing the requirements for Eagle Scout, consider resetting your sights on a different goal.

 

Think for a moment about the type of program that a Scout is in that would "allow" him that rush to Eagle. Was last month's program shallow or deep and what was the last campout like? Was there planning in advance and support services needed to pull it off or did everyone just come in and sit or load up and go? When there is a full program with Scouts planning, communicating, resource(ing), etc, there is plenty of action and loads to see. Nobody needs to explain to a Scout about missing the journey because it will be happening in their own unit and they will be doing the driving.

 

Plus, Eagle is just one of the many exciting goals to be reached. The following are: obtaining the other 90 or so merit badges and Eagle Palms, obtaining their religious award, Snorkeling, Mile Swim, and BSA Lifeguard, World Conservation and the Hornaday award, the 50 miler by canoe and by foot, the work and Honors in the Order of the Arrow, the Paul Bunyan and the Historic Trail awards, the award strip for learning a foreign language, visiting the high adventure bases, planning and staffing a District Event(s), and Saving a Life. NOW that is a larger goal that few can reach by the age of 12 but encourage them to do it and get those pushy parents behind your efforts for all of the Scouts to reach all of these heights as fast as they possibly can. To not do so is to be less than perfect and we all know what that is like.

 

Fuzzy Bear