Changing hearts and minds

[FScouter]

Several thoughts about why some Scouters employ the hold them back syndrome. None of these ideas are supported in any way at all by the Scouting program.

 

- Fear that a boy will be awarded a rank, and then behave in a way the demeans the rank, thus proving he was not ready, and should not have been awarded it. This will make the adult leaders look bad.

 

- A young boy with the same rank as an older boy may be looked at by the older boys as a threat. There may be some feelings of inadequacy among the older boys if a young one achieves what they achieved, in less time.

 

- They have the idea that a Scout starts out as Tenderfoot at age 11, and ends with Eagle at age 18. The straight-line progression of 6 ranks in 7 years is one rank advancement every 14 months. Advancement any faster than that would be off schedule.

 

- If a boy reaches Eagle, that is the end of his Scouting path. There is nothing left. Eagle at 14 means the next four years are wasted.

 

- Maybe the Scoutmaster was a Boy Scout himself, tried hard, but never made it past 1st Class. How could any of the boys in his troop now be any better than him?

 

- The adults are control freaks on a power trip.

 

[torribug]

It seems to be my fellow committee members that are worried about advancement happening too quickly. I've never heard our very-well-trained SM say anything negative about any of the boys advancing quickly. I have heard a few ASMs mention that they don't think a boy should advance too quickly; some scouts have experienced hold-ups with getting certain requirements signed off, or even getting opportunities to learn/perform requirements. This was by ASMs in charge of New Scout patrols, not the SM.

 

Eamonn, thanks for the suggestions on ways to work with this. That is exactly why I posted to this forum: to get other's POV on how to tactfully handle the situation. I think the route I'm going to take is to read through all of the manuals. Then I'll suggest to the TCC that she stress the importance of us all being trained. At the next committee meeting where one of the members clucks about advancement happening too quickly, I'll ask, with a wide-eyed, innocent look, "Wow! When was the last time a scout appealed a BOR decision to not pass based on age(maturity, grade level, etc)?" Some of the parents DO know about the appeal process. If I still meet resistance, then it's time to secure an invitation to the District Commish to visit our troop. This can be done casually - he used to be our next-door-neigbor, and oldest son's den leader.

 

FS - I have, over the past year, considered most of these potential reasons as being part of the reluctance to "allow" a boy to advance. I especially like the one about 6 ranks in 7 years. Nobody has ever given me that reason directly, but I do know that one of the ASMs said it to my son's patrol. I would counter that Scouts is not public school, and to please show me where in the literature that information resides.

 

There's another reason that I have thought may be an issue, based on where some of these folks' sons are in rank. They don't want a younger kid outranking their kid. After all, how does that make them look as a parent? It's a vicious cycle, because it's "always been done that way." Their sons were held back, now they have to keep others down so their sons don't get surpassed.

 

As far as Eagle being the end of the path, I have to wonder why they would worry about that? Is there not Venturing and Sea Scouts? Junior Assistant Scoutmaster?

 

Thx, BUG

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

There is no finish line...

 

If Eagle is the end of the path, why are there Eagle Palms of Bronze, Gold and Silver? And the ability of earning multiple Bronzes, Golds and Silvers? If you "hold back" a scout from making Eagle "too early" don't you reduce the number of palms he can earn? And if you do that, is not that un scoutlike?

 

Eagle is not the goal, First Class is the only goal in advncements, the rest are supposed to be up to the scout.

[FScouter]

It sounds like your Scoutmaster is ready to advance boys. If that is the case, your mission is at least one half accomplished. At soon as he does the Scoutmaster conference, he would then notify the committee that he has a boy ready for a board of review. The committee should then schedule a date.

 

Heres what I would do if they wont schedule a date, or schedule it more than a few weeks into the future. I would ask them the reason why the BOR should not take place now. If the too young/not ready answer comes up, I would ask them what they believe to be the correct age for that particular rank. I would then suggest that they write up a rank/age chart. The chart would list the minimum age required to achieve each rank.

 

I suspect they wont want to put anything in writing about a minimum age. More likely they would say that the proper age depends on the particular boy. I would then politely suggest that we dont really know if a particular boy is ready until we conduct the BOR and interview him. Id tell them that it is perfectly acceptable to fail a boy at a board of review, and until a BOR has been conducted, how do we really know whether he is ready, or not? My goal would be to get them to go through the BOR process, and put them in the position of being forced to fail boys if they really want to hold them back. If they choose to fail a boy they would have to express in writing to the boy exactly where he failed and exactly what he must do to advance. That becomes the basis for the appeal process.

[dsteele]

I've stayed silent on the "too young to advance" topic, thus far, because that particular shell lands a bit too close to my foxhole for comfort.

 

I won't tell you how old I was when I passed my Eagle Board of Review, but it was roughly 380 days prior to my 15th birthday. Yeah, you read that right.

 

I believe that the program calls for each Scout to advance at his own pace. There are time requirements for star, life and eagle which I believe coincide with the leadership requirements. At the time I earned my eagle, there were time requirements for every rank, but that's a different story.

 

I believe that a Scout earns a rank by meeting all the requirements, no more, no less. That includes Scout Spirit, but not age. It also requires some ability.

 

I've told you I was a young Eagle Scout -- in this post. Let me also say that I failed my first board of review for Second Class. I'll never forget it. They were asking me questions about the skill awards (that dates me) that I earned, and there were several where I tried to fudge an answer.

 

They failed me in the board of review. It hurt a lot at the time. They let me re-take it a month later and I passed.

 

It was one of the best lessons I've ever learned.

 

To quote Barry,

 

I love this Scouting Stuff.

 

Unc.

[boleta]

torribug

I think you have had excellent advice so far. In addition, consider attending your District Committee meeting so you can see what is going on and also meet your District Commissioner and District Advancement Chairman. I think they will be receptive to your concerns and be able to assist in resolving some of these issues if your Unit Commissioner can't help you.

 

By the way, I know a kid who joined in Feb. at age 11. He was First Class in Sept. after Summer Camp. He was Start after the next year's SC- age 12. He was Life after the next year's SC- age 13. He earned Eagle at age 16!! Lifesaving was required and was tough! That was me and the year was 1969.

 

Your Troop is clearly adding to the requirements WHICH IS NOT ALLOWED.

[OldGreyEagle]

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)