Incomplete merit badges

[SR540Beaver]

Hunt,

 

I saw this happen this past Saturday morning as we were getting ready to leave camp. Our camp does not use blue cards. The Scout gets a negative report instead. It is a form with the merit badge's requirements listed and the counselor marks the requirements that were not met. If there are no marks on the form, the scout has met all requirements. We had a really bad stinker of a MB counselor that actually played cards with the boys instead of teaching them and working on requirements. He was reported on mid-week and corrections were made. When we gave the forms to the boys to review before leaving camp, one boy spoke up that his form was not accurate because everything was signed off and he quit going to the class mid-week. The SM said that it was up to him, but a Scout is trustworthy. The boy took the form and ripped it in half and said he would take the MB over with a counselor at home. He could have done the un-Scout like thing and said he earned it. Instead, he did the Scout like thing and rejected the giveaway. An SM should never tell a boy he can't have an MB when a counselor signed off, but he can counsel the boy on the right way to handle the situation.

[SR540Beaver]

BW,

 

Hunt is talking about a camp MB and you are talking about an MB that a boy decides to take at home. Not all camps use blue cards. Our camp has a form that is used in a troop meeting far prior to camp. It lists the various classes available. The boy signs up for a class and the SM discusses his choices with him. He also makes sure they have access to the MB book. When the SM turns the form into the council office, it basically is the same thing as having signed the blue cards.

[Bob White]

SR540beaver, I invite you to revisit Hunt's post. If indeed he was thinking aboout summer camp it would be impossible to deduce that from his post. He makes no mention of such a senario as you suggest.

 

Summer camp is no different in that the scout must first come to the scoutmaster and get a blue card. The fact that the camp doesn't make use of it does not change the procedure outlined in the Scout Handbook, Scoutmaster handbook, Merit Badge Counselor Orientation guide, and Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual.

 

The troop leaders and the council/district are still responsible for seeing that counselors are qualified and capable. At Camp the unit leaders should be visiting the sessions to make sure that the work is done according to the requirements. If there is a problem you need to communicate that to the Camp director and changes need to be made. Read the advancement manual. it explains that although camp has its challenges that the rules of advancement and the expectations of the counselor do not change.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Bob - I have no problem with the adult counselors at camp. It's usually been the 14 year old ones I've had issues with.

 

And, for the record, I totally support the process as designed outside of the constructs of camp. It works great for the normal MB process. Even if I felt a counselor cut a boy some slack, it's not my job to question it.

[Hunt]

I don't think I made a mistake in my post. While I was thinking of camp, my scenario would fit any situation in which the SM has reason to believe a counselor did not require a scout to fulfill the requirements of the MB. I fully understand that the SM signs the blue card at the beginning of the process, but he signs it again when the blue card is turned in, before the MB is entered on an advancement report. While I agree that this signature is just a receipt (as you'll note from my scenario, the SM does not refus

[Bob White]

No he doesn't Hunt. Read the card again. The Scoutmaster signs before, and a leader signs after on the Scout's copy as a receipt. Thats all it is... a receipt. Once the MB counselor signs the badge is done.

 

Read the advancement rules also, While at summer camp a staff member under 18 can assist the counselor, but a registered, approved, counselor must test each scout individually in order for the Scout to pass. Real world is.. your council must still follow the national policies, even if it is summer camp.

 

The more you know of the rules the better prepared you can be to help guide your local council back in line with the national policies.

[boleta]

I think I have discovered the source of my problem with this thread. Some feel it is PUNISHMENT to ask the scout to follow the rules and complete the requirements for a merit badge. Others feel it is a form of PUNISHMENT to give a badge that isn't earned. What exactly are we trying to teach?

The discussion proposed by Hunt has another problem. When the scout says "I don't care if is poor scout spirit, give me the merit badge even though you and I know I did not do all of the requirements." Does the SM hold up the next rank advancement for poor scout spirit?

[evmori]

If the Scout "earns" the merit badge by completing all the requirements, no problem. If the Scout is "given" the merit badge without completing all the requirements, problem. A merit badge is "earned" not "given".

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

The last part of my post was cut off--it went something like: While I agree that this signature is just a receipt (as you'll note from my scenario, the SM does not refuse to sign), it seems to me that this would be an appropriate time to counsel with the scout about what would be the scoutlike thing to do.

I fully understand the rules--the fact is that this is a loophole in the rules, and a scout should be urged not to exploit the loophole. I also note that the Advancement Report requires a signature, and I would have qualms about signing one when I believed that the merit badge wasn't properly earned. I suppose one might say that I should be happy to sign because the rules only say that the MB must be signed off by an approved counselor, and that's all I'm affirming when I sign the report. But I don't think we'd be doing a scout any favors by suggesting that it is OK for him to accept the merit badge without actually performing the requirements. Just to be crystal clear, I understand that the RULES allow him to accept the badge under those circumstances; I still don't think it's OK.

[Bob White]

The appropriate time for the unit leader to counsel is prior to the time the scout meets with the merit badge counselor. The appropriate person for the unit leader to counsel is the merit badge counselor.

[Hunt]

Bob, you keep saying this, and I don't think anybody is arguing with you. BUT it does happen that a scout returns from camp with a signed blue card, and you learn that the requirements weren't done. Surely you aren't saying that you say nothing to the scout? I'm not talking about exerting any power over him other than the power of persuasion. Don't you agree that for his own self-respect he should complete the requirements (or do it over entirely if it was just a giveaway)?

[Fat Old Guy]

"3. The responsibility for merit badges rests solely with the merit badge counselor (article X, clause 13 of the Advancement by-laws)"

 

Once again a reference to those secret BSA publications. We mere mortals don't have access to those special publications. I asked at our Scout Center if there was a copy of the By-Laws that I could peruse and you would have thought that I had announced that I had a gun on an airplane.

 

We mere mortals have to use the poorly written publications like the Advancement Policy and Procedures Manual. IT says that a merit badge cannot be taken away once it is earned. Fair enough. The question reamins, "what is earned?"

 

If the counselor signs the card which certifies that the requirements were met and he knows that they were not met, that is fraud. I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but I believe that fraudulent documents are not binding.

[Bob White]

Certainly you can counsel the scout, I would definitely make available opportunities for him to gain the information or activities that he was denied by the counselor.

 

BUT, you CANNOT refuse a signed merit badge from a registered and approved counselor, and you CANNOT review a merit badge advancement. The policies governing that are clear and specific. The responsibility to see that the requirements were met rests totally with the counselor according the policies of the BSA regardless of anyones personal opinion. Summer camp is no exception.

 

[evmori]

So if the Scout completed none of the requirements for a merit badge and has a signed blue card from a registered MB counselor for the badge did he "earn" it?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Fat Old Guy]

ed asked, "So if the Scout completed none of the requirements for a merit badge and has a signed blue card from registered MB counselor for the badge did he earn it?"

 

In Bob White's world yes. Then again, Bobo may have a valid point. I just read a blue card (again) and found that the counselor isn't certifying that the requirements were met but that it was "demonstrated to my satisfaction" that the requirements were met.

 

What satisfies me may not satisfy you. So while one counselor is satisfied with a work of art from a woodcarver, another may be satisfied by the Scout simply saying "hello."