Incomplete merit badges

[Hunt]

I distinguish between gray areas (what is a "strong stroke" when swimming) and total failure to perform a requirement. Bob, I still don't think you've addressed the situation clearly when you say you'd provide the opportunity to the scout to get the information or activities he's missed. Wouldn't you also counsel him on the right thing to do? Are you saying that we shouldn't counsel him on the right thing to do? What would you think of a scout who told you he didn't have to actually do the requirements as long as the counselor signed the blue card? How would you help that scout understand the program--which requires that the badges be earned? Isn't that scout eventually going to have to sign an Eagle Rank Application that requires him to state that he has "earned" the listed Merit Badges?

[SMT376Richmond KY]

Question for the troops that camps give form and not cards. How do you get the counselors signatures on the blue card after you return? What if a boy is up for Eagle and something is missing in council and he has to rely on his copy of the card as proof. The counselor hasn't signed it has he? Just pondering.

[EagleInKY]

Hey Neighbor. Up until this year, CCC used a form ('passport') instead of blue cards. They started using blue cards this year. LHC recognized the passports are legitimate, so it would never be an issue. We keep them on file, just as we would do a blue card. They do have the counselors signatures on them. They also were willing to do blue cards for out-of-council troops that needed them.

 

It's a moot point now, we're doing blue cards, so there shouldn't be an issue going forward.

[scoutingagain]

Our camp does not do Blue Cards either. They havn't used them apparently for years. Scouts do get a signed merit badge application form that includes the counselors signature and all the requirements for the merit badge listed.

 

In fact, except for last year, scouts actually recieved their MBs and signed MB cards on the last day of camp. At that point the signed MB cards are documentation that the scout has earned the badge and the forms or Blue cards are moot.

 

SA

 

 

 

[Eagle74]

EagleInKY: Were all of your MB cards signed by a registered "adult" counselor? We were at CCC during the same week and it looks like a number of our cards were not signed by a registered adult counselor.

 

My experience is that part of the summer camp (esp)/MB camp/MB challenge problem is that "counselors" have not been thoroughly trained regarding their responsibilities as a merit badge counselor. I queried a few "MB counselors" during summer camp about what training they had received and the general reply ranged from "Very Little" to "Some" to "I was trained in my home council". With some it was clear that they did not understand their duties/obligations. With some it was obvious from the manner in which the blue cards were filled out.

 

As was stated somewhere above, how do I as a troop leader verify the qualifications of the counselor that will be working with the boys at summer camp prior to issuing a blue card and/or check on their record of Scouts earning vs being given their merit badge. Within our home district/council this is relatively easy; 150 miles from home is a different story.

[EagleInKY]

You're correct, our blue cards were signed by the camp counselors, many who were older youth, not adult leaders.

 

The biggest problem we still have at scout camp is the counselors signing off boys for "just being there". I believe it was in another post that I told about some of my older boys being frustrated with their classes being too easy. Lifesaving was one of them. How can Lifesaving be easy?

 

My son, who has an incredibly strong moral compass, went through all of the requirements for the MBs he took at camp. He told me that the Cooking MB guy didn't cover half of the stuff that he checked off. He wants to go over it and complete the requirements they didn't do.

 

Regarding the blue cards, we also had some that were practically impossible to read (the remaining requirements part). In our haste to check out on Saturday, we didn't catch that. We've gone back to the boys to figure out what they did and didn't do.

[scouterfly]

This is quite an informative thread. I see that there are many interpretations of how merit badges are granted. Our summer camp had a printout for each scout that has all the MB's that they originally registered for. Some had comments like, "didn't show up for class" to "attended but did not earn requirements". The partials listed requirements that needed to be completed. The sheet was signed by the program director of the camp. The troop leaders sat down one day after summer camp and transcribed all these sheets onto Blue cards and listed the camp name as the MBC. There were obvious errors noted, such as hiking #5 take five 10 mile hikes on five different days. It was signed off and it was obviously an error, the boy did not do any hikes. Our troop will sit down with each boy to review the merit badges one by one to see if they have a clue as to what the MB was about and if it was completed.

This whole topic of merit badges has too many gray areas.

[Bob White]

I think perhaps what we are seeing is not a problem with merit badges, but a problem we have created in merit badge administration at summer camps.

 

Summer camps are no longer viewed as being for fun and fellowship. Too many leaders have created an environment where the purpose of summer camp is to amasse merit badges. Because of that, camps are stretching resources to accomodate the expectations of the units and errors are being made.

 

Perhaps, if we put advancment back into perspective as a tool for teaching rather than as an end unto itself, we could eventually return to merit badges being a more quality experience for the scout.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[packsaddle]

Right On!

[EagleInKY]

Amen Brother Bob.

[dblaszkasr]

I'm having a problem with a number of posts here in particular those from Bob White, who in general appears reasonable and knowledgeable. First the issue of the Scoutmaster signing the Blue Card prior to starting a merit badge. You've seemed to ignore the possibility that a scout may be attending Camp as Provo. In this case the "Scoutmaster" can be the Provo Scoutmaster. This past summer the Provo scoutmaster not only signed a number of Blue Cards but also was the councilor for a slew of Merit Badges...not part of the Camp Program. Several Merit Badges such as Pets, Dog care, Cooking, White water just to mention a few were signed and were not completed. You have to complete a log for Pets and Dog care. You have to demonstrate techniques for White Water in "Running Water" not a bathtub/pond or lake. You can't earn Horsemanship with a carousel. This is fraud period. I have reported the incident to the council and they may act on it. But you say I must award these badges because the councilor has committed fraud

is ludicrous. It's the death of common sense ! I will not dishonor all those that have earned their badges and especially Eagle Scouts just to comply with a rule that was made by some committee with it's head in the clouds. The fact that the official rules doesn't take fraud into consideration seems to beg, no it pleads us to take the high ground here. What happened to "Trustworthy", what happened to "On My HONOR"...we're going to lay down our principles for some ill-conceived, poor thought rule. I'm sorry that is jail house lawyering. Wrong is wrong and will always be wrong not having specified in the rule doesn't make it right. I'm appalled at this whole discussion. I was reading these posts in order to work through this very issue and hoping that I could find some intelligent answers and suggestions to a heart wrenching dilemma. The person in question is wood badge trained, silver beaver recipient and the parent of an Eagle Scout yet she has given away Merit Badges like candy at halloween....this forum is sorely lacking the depth I was hoping to find

 

Don

[Bob White]

Hi Don,

 

Here's the thing. I do not disagree that the scout should do what the requirements say. nor do I disagree that that the counselor should almost religiously follow the requirements.

 

Here is where I am comming from, I can tell you from experience with the National BSA Scout Advancement Division, It is the responsibility of adults to nake sure that the adult counselor is qualified and does their job correctly. the adult that recruits them, the one that trains them, the one that approves them, the ones that send the scouts to them, all have a share in making sure that the counselor does the job correctly.

 

If the counselor does not do his/her job, then punish an adult....not the Scout.

 

BW

 

 

 

[Bob White]

Lets try agian with spell check...

 

Hi Don,

 

Here's the thing. I do not disagree that the scout should do what the requirements say. Nor do I disagree that that the counselor should almost religiously follow the requirements.

 

Here is where I am coming from, I can tell you from experience with the National BSA Scout Advancement Division, It is the responsibility of adults to make sure that the adult counselor is qualified and does their job correctly. The adult that recruits them, the one that trains them, the one that approves them, the ones that send the scouts to them, all have a share in making sure that the counselor does the job correctly.

 

If the counselor does not do his/her job, then punish an adult....not the Scout

 

BW

 

[Twocubdad]

I agree 100% with the need to deal with the problem counselors throught the camp director or advancement committee. That's an adult problem which needs to be dealt with by adults.

 

Where I disagree somewhat is that by denying a Scout a fistful of MBs he obviously did not earn that we are "punishing" him. Punishment would be to deny the unearned badges AND to take away another earned badge for good measure.

 

Who is being harmed by the unearned badges? The Scout! He may not like when he's told he needs to really complete the badges, but in the long run he is the one who benefits. And let's be honest: the boys know when they are getting away with something and when they aren't.

 

(Just to be clear since this is an old thread, understand there is a difference between a counselor making a judgement call as to what's good enough versus approving a MB that is flat-out unearned.)

 

By the way, Bob, I think your observations about summer camp programs are interesting. But can you imagine what Scout camps would be like if all merit badge classes were dropped? Short term, all our guys would spend the first three day hanging out in hammocks or swilling soda at the trading post. But it would be interesting to see what they come up with once that gets boring.

[dblaszkasr]

Twocubdad,

 

Actually next summer we will be attending a camp that does not have "regular" merit badge classes. W're headed to Camp Bell which is part of Daniel Webster's Council Hidden Valley Scout Reservation. HVSR has 2 camps one with the traditional program that services about 800 scout a week. And Camp Bell which services a much smaller number in Patrol style. The Patrols choose what to do each day of the week...so if they pick equestrian then they spend the day with horses...they may be able to earn merit badge and they may not. Among the activities they can choose is a day in the climbing barn, the farm, water skiing, Sailing, Logging camp etc. But they spend the entire day...they also have to cook their own Breakfast and Dinner. Box lunches are brought to the day's activities.

 

We will also spend the following week at our own Council camp which has an open program.

 

Don