Troop Policy: >50% Attendance Req'd. for Advancement?

[Bob White]

The scoutmaster makes it a portion of the Scoutmaster Conference. Keep in mind the mission is to help the scout make ethical decisions based on the Oath and Law. The SM and the scout discuss his personal goals in and out of scouting and how he plans to achieve them. They discus the responsibilities he has taken on in his patrol and troop, his school, his home, his community. What is important to us is his development as a person, not just his attendance at scout events. Who he is becoming, is far more important to us than merely how often he shows up. So let's measure what's important.

 

If he has accepted a patrol or troop responsibility they will discuss what needs to be accomplished in the next 6 to 9 months to effectively do that job. He will ask the scout to think about what he will need to do and what he needs to be at for his to be trustworthy, helpful to his patrol/troop. Usually the scout sets a goal far above 50%. If the SM feels the scout hasn't made an ethical decision, he will discuss it with him. If he feels what the scout can give is not sufficient to be considered active he will counsel the scout to either make a stronger commitment or to pass on the responsibility until a time when he can actively serve.

 

BUT, the important thing to remember is that it is the scout's decision, and that it is reached on an individual basis. It requires the SM to do their job... to know and understand the needs and characteristics of the individual scouts.

 

The scout writes his goals in his handbbok. Never wait until the end of the term to evaluate. Evaluation as you learn in scout leader training is a continual process. As you see a trend to meet the goal you enthuse and recognize the scouts efforts. As you see trends that do not support the goal you cousel, train, and redirect.

 

That's what the job of being an adult leader is really all about.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[boleta]

It is wonderful when the SM is the ideal adult leader, but unfortunately, he is just an adult volunteer like all the rest of us. He makes mistakes, is unclear with the scout and occasionally gives mixed messages as to the demands of the scout. I go back to my previous post, the bylaws should spell out the requirement to be active. If the SM does not follow the bylaw, then there is a basis for a review to the BOR, the troop committee or beyond. If the bylaw is incorrect (by demanding more than is required) then district and council advancement advisors can intervene.

[Bob White]

Boleta some points to consider.

 

"It is wonderful when the SM is the ideal adult leader, but unfortunately, he is just an adult volunteer like all the rest of us."

 

That's right we are all volunteers and all pretty much the same. There isn't anything one of us can do that another cannot learn to do.

 

"He makes mistakes, is unclear with the scout and occasionally gives mixed messages as to the demands of the scout."

 

Which goes back to the unit's responsibility to choose their leaders wisely. Plus there is nothing wrong with making a mistake, until you choose to make the same one over and over again.

 

"I go back to my previous post, the bylaws should spell out the requirement to be active. If the SM does not follow the bylaw, then there is a basis for a review to the BOR, the troop committee or beyond. If the bylaw is incorrect (by demanding more than is required) then district and council advancement advisors can intervene."

 

Why not just follow the scouting program to begin with, rather than waiting for the district or council to catch someone doing it wrong and have to intervene?

 

What if no one complains because they don't know that an appeal process exists? How long should a unit go altering the program and how many boys should it be allowed to discourage or chase away?

 

Why can't the BSA program simply be followed to begin with?

 

You have been offered a method that accomplishes the mission, uses the methods, respects each scouts individual characteristics, and enhances the scoutmasters understanding of each scout.

 

Other than the fact that it requires an adult leader to lead, what do you see as the negatives compared to selecting a random number, and it is a random number. Unless of course you can show a consistant measuarable difference in the quality of a scout with 51% attendance as compared to 49% attendance.

[boleta]

I agree with Bob White in principle. But the reality is that these problems arise all the time, even when there are well trained and knowledgeable volunteers. My son just went through this with an Eagle Palm. His attendance and leadership were questioned by the SM who would not sign off on the recognition. It took 3 months and a successful appeal to Council to get the Palm awarded. The Troop Bylaws will be changed on several levels because of this. Was it frustrating? Yes. But all benefitted from the exercise, including my son who now knows it is worthwhile to fight for change when the process is not fair or correct. You can view our bylaws- by checking out www.tidewaterbsa.com and linking on units, troop 48, bylaws or troop guidebook. Our Troop Committee is meeting to revamp the Bylaws concerning BOR after SM conference and After Eagle program.

[Bob White]

Sorry boleta but I read through you "by-laws" and it only supports what my experience has shown me...unit by-laws have very little value in delivering a scouting program.

 

Easily a third of the content is not rule or law, as the title suggests. As an example to say that 'parents should try to attend all courts of honor' is hardly a rule.

 

Everything else falls into one of two categories, 1.already covered by the BSA program, (example two deep leadership), or 2. in direct opposition to the BSA program, elected ASPL and scoutmaster selecting troop positions).

 

You could have saved a lot of time (and trees) with a one page welcome to new parents, and tips on how to have a great scouting experience, and a statement that the troop will follow the program methods and policies of the BSA.

 

 

[Hunt]

The problem I see here is that the advancement requirements generally include objectively measurable goals ("tie a square knot"), but a few are very subjective ("be active"). The more subjective a requirement is, the more open to interpretation it is, and the more subject to unreasonable interpretation or abuse it is as well. Whether you do it in the context of one boy or by setting a bylaw, you still have to interpret what "active" means before you sign off on the requirement.

[boleta]

I did not mean to imply that these documents are perfect. Our parents have MANY questions about the program. The bylaws and guidebook are meant to help answer these questions.

[Scoutmaster Ron]

If units are putting attendance requirments in their by-laws why doesn't council or Natl put out a memo indicating that they are in violation of BSA Advancement procedures? The unit I'm serving currently does have an attendance requirement of 50% outings 50% meetings.

Frankly, Bob has made a very strong case of determinging active-vs-attendance and how we need to deliver the program "one boy at a time". I will be advising a change in our by laws.

[Eagle5]

Hi again all,

 

Bob, Thanks for your last flurry of comments.

 

I, too, questioned why my troop even has by-laws.

My experience in non-scouting areas is that trying to create additional bureacracy is usually counter-productive & red-tapish.

 

A little research indicates that the BSA does not condone by-laws, except in Venterer Crews...I'll be pushing to scrap ours entirely.

 

I have to side with Bob in saying that ASMs and the SM ultimately have to determine (scout-by-scout) what active means. Everyone who has responded to this thread acknowledges the importance of not cookie-cutting scouts/program. Admittedly, by-laws do this.

 

Further, having by-laws assumes that we can not or will not trust our Scoutmasters to be the role model we elected them to be, and have the integrity to do the right thing.

 

boleta may disagree with this given her/his experience but the particulars of each event are usually telling.

 

I know that if I were in a unit with a Scoutmaster that I thought was a tyrant, morally bankrupt, unfair, etc..., I'd pack up and leave that unit, or I'd approach the parent committee to ask for a replacement. Perhaps my false assumption is that the Troop Scoutmaster is the #1 Adult Icon? Am I in lala land??

 

I'm trying to teach my son to respect others, authority, values, etc... He would certainly be confused if his Scoutmaster was not reflecting Scouting Values.

 

Yours in Scouting, Eagle5

[boleta]

Wow. Interesting ideas. Scrap the bylaws? They have a section on the discipline policy of the troop. I think this should be laid out to scout and parents at the time of joining so they know what to expect. I sure would like to see in writing where it says BSA does not condone bylaws.

[Twocubdad]

I belive you will find the official BSA discipline policy described on pages 47-54 of the Scout Handbook.

 

Bob -- your post at the top of the current page was very good. Thank you. I'd like to continue the discussion, but don't have the time right now.

[Bob White]

boleta,

The behavior expectations for a scout are thoroughly covered in the Scout Law. The disciplinary process is spelled out in the Guide to Safe Scouting. Take a look at both and tell me what you think they lack.

 

bob White

[bt01]

Attendance????? If there is no attendance how do you know if the scout is part of the program?????

 

BT

[boleta]

Now we are getting off of the original subject. But since you brought it up... Telling me that the Scout Law and the Guide to Safe Scouting will substitute for a clearly stated discipline policy in the troop bylaws really begs the question of how the SPL, SM and others deal with disorderly young men. We know that 13 year old boys never lose their temper or get into fights, but, heaven forbid, something should happen, how is this going to be handled? Just send everyone involved home? Tell all to behave and act like perfect scouts and forget it happened? Something in between?

Safety Afloat and Safe swim defense have a discipline section but do not give clear instruction as to what to do when some kids are disruptive and worse. The bylaws and guidebook in our troop try to let the parents know how this will be handled. I have seen a dozen different ways to do this ranging from "let the SM handle it" to a card system similar to soccer where disruptions get a yellow card and 3 yellow cards get a call to dad to pick the scout up to go home- regardless of where the event is being held. This system is applied by the boy leadership of the troop and the adults stay out of it unless needed. The boys are usually stricter than the adults when it comes to disruptive behavior with this method.

I don't agree with everything in the Troop 48 discipline section of the bylaws, but it sure is better than nothing. The expectation is that the Scout Oath and Law will be followed. When continued misbehavior and disruptive behavior has known consequences that are clearly spelled out, problems with dealing with it can be minimized. On a rare occasion, a scout is asked to find another troop. If this should ever happen to you, I think you would want something to back you up as to why you took the actions you did. The Bylaws of the Troop do that.

[Bob White]

boleta, your troop bylaws are no more incident specific then the BSA process. No set of bylaws could be unless they were mulit-volumed collections.

 

Scouts are still learning right from wrong and also how to make good decisions in new situations. Mistakes will be made. When they are adult leaders need to intercede.

 

Scoutmasters need to know how to counsel and guide or they shouldn't be scoutmasters. But they are there to guide, not punish other peoples children. The G2SS is clear that once a child's behaviour interferes with the delivery of the program, or endangers his safety (or the safety of others) he is to go home.

 

Scoutmasters are not trained, asked, or expected to punish children. That is a parents decision to make AT HOME. The child and his parents then meet with the troop committee to determine how or if the scout will be allowed to continue in the troop.

 

Bottom line...you want to participate with scouts then you behave as a scout. Those behaviours are spelled out in the Scout Law. Nice and clear, one rule, easy to remember, equal expectation for all involved.

 

In nearly 30 years as a unit leader I believe I have sent, maybe, 3 scouts home. Including a couple parents who had to drive nearly 1000 miles to pick their son up.

 

And we have never had by-laws, we just followed the program.