brkeith Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Question 1- If a scout completes a Merit badge requirement for you as a counsellor and then take another merit badge from you with the same requirement is he required to demonstrate the skill again.. i.e CPR is required for swimming and canoeing, if the scout showed you in swimming is it required to repeat again? Question 2- If a scout uses a five mile hike to complete map & compass, is there any rule which says that hike cannot be considered to demonstrate the experience criteria for camping merit badge (for example 2000' elevation gain requirement), i.e. some advancement chairman have told me each hike can only be used for 1 requirement. and they have to be distinct events.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molscouter Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 I don't know the by-the-book answers, but my gut response is to #1 is, it depends. If he were pursuing both the swimming and canoeing merit badges at the same time (with signed blue cards), I'd say demonstrating it once should suffice for both. Even if they weren't at the same time, if only a short time had lapsed (a month or maybe 2), it would probably be okay. If it were much more than that, I'd say no, show me again. Just because he knew it a year ago doesn't mean he knows it now. Even professionals have to get recertified every so often. As for #2, I would be inclined to agree with the chairman. I base this on recent additions (clarifications?) to the Arrow of Light and Outdoorsman activity badge rules, which don't allow double dipping on one outing with a Boy Scout troop (i.e., you can't go to the troop campout and have it count for Outdoorsman's camp overnight with a Boy Scout troop and AOL's attend a Boy Scout outdoor activity). (This message has been edited by molscouter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreaScouter Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 My opinion, with some BSA official language precedent, is this: You can double dip on requirements between Boy Scout advancement requirements and MB requirements. For example, the first aid skills you learn and demonstrate for the MB can be used to sign off TF/2C/1C advancement, and vice versa. Likewise, if a Scout earns the Swimming MB at summer camp, I sign off his 2C/1C swimming requirements. You cannot double dip on requirements between MBs. For example, you cannot apply the same hikes you complete for the Hiking MB to the requirements for the Backpacking MB -- that's straight out of the badge requirements. The latter example is why your CC may be saying you can't use one hike for two requirements. If it's between the two MBs, I agree. But, in your application, I think it should be okay. KS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWScouter Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 You are getting in to the no more, no less rule in Scout advancement. The example you give on hike could be counted for two requirements, yes that is correct. He did a hike with a map and compass and he did a hike with a 2000ft elevation gain. Those are two distinct requirements and he happens to do them on the same hike. Are you going to say if he is doing his hike for a second class requirement then he cant count it as one of the ten outings for first class? When you make rule like that advancement chair did, you are adding to the requirements. In the Communication and Citizenship in the Community merit badges there is requirement to go to a government meeting and they had to do something a little different with what they saw and heard. I encouraged them to work on both MB at the same time and complete those requirements with one trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molscouter Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 message deleted(This message has been edited by molscouter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molscouter Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 It's cutting off my responses again.(This message has been edited by molscouter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Unless specifically stated in the BSA requirement that an activity cannot be repeated, then it can be. "each hike can only be used for 1 requirement. and they have to be distinct events" Absolutely False! "You cannot double dip on requirements between MBs." Not True, unless specifically stated in the requirement. "you cannot apply the same hikes you complete for the Hiking MB to the requirements for the Backpacking MB" True, but only because of this statement in the Hiking Merit Badge requirements.*The hikes in requirements 5 and 6 can be used in fulfilling Second Class (2a) and First Class (3) rank requirements, but only if Hiking merit badge requirements 1, 2, 3, and 4 have been completed to the satisfaction of your counselor. The hikes of requirements 5 and 6 cannot be used to fulfill requirements of other merit badges. Lastly, "You are getting in to the no more, no less rule in Scout advancement." Correct! (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 As merit badges go, unless it specifically states the requirement can't be used for another badge, it is at the discretion of the merit badge counselor as long as nothing is added or subtracted from the requirements. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2 Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 A bit of a sore spot, especially with First Aid learnings. I've seen too many Scouts whiz through the MB (typically at summer camp) and forget it all in a short time and be unable to complete their rank reqts. While not quite ready to go back to 'Finish Tfoot before beginning 2nd Class work' (which would be the death of First Class in the First Year) it did serve to reinforce some of the more important stuff. Ah progress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I'm w/Bob & Ed on this. Unless it says you can't, then go ahead and use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 EagleInKY, Actually I said it was up to the discretion on the MB counselor whether to accept it or not. Technically, one could argue that a requirement completed prior to starting the MB doesn't count for that MB. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Ed - You're right. Sometimes in the desire to be short, I'm not that accurate. I still agree with you. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 "While not quite ready to go back to 'Finish Tfoot before beginning 2nd Class work' (which would be the death of First Class in the First Year)" Would that be so bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA6BSA Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 There is officially some double-dipping allowed in the strangest places in BSA... if an Eagle Scout project has the right conservation attributes it may also count toward a project for the prestigious Hornaday Award! You just can't reason it out and need to pay attention to the language in each case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 ""While not quite ready to go back to 'Finish Tfoot before beginning 2nd Class work' (which would be the death of First Class in the First Year)" Would that be so bad?" If you mean the death of FCFY, no that wouldn't be bad. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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