evmori Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 "Present yourself to your leader, properly dressed, before going on an overnight camping trip. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it." No doubt the Scout would be able to do everything but the correct way to carry it & pack it! He has never done it! I would bet he doesn't even know what was packed let alone how to do it. Show in this case means do. Ed Mori A blessed Christmas to all! 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Which is why requirement 8a. fro First Class reads.Demonstrate tying the bowline knot and describe several ways it can be used. rather than "Show how to use a Bowline" In this case the scout is required to perform the specific action of tying the knot. That is not what is required of him in Tenterfoot requirement #1. You may not like it. You may want it to be different. But, it is what it is, and you do not have the authority to change it or to require anything other than what the book says. Leave mom alone, counsel the scout to be prepared, train the BOR to do their job properly. Sticking to the topic, Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 How do you show something like the right way to pack without actually doing it? It isn't like show & tell where you pull out a picture and explain it! And if mom does it all the time, this Scout woun't be able to do it! It sound like it might be a good time to have a class in packing for the entire Troop! Ed Mori A blessed Christmas to all! 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Ed, Ed, Ed. . . you and I obviously have a poor grasp of the English language. You see, "showing" how to do something doesn't actually involve doing it whereas "demonstrating" how to do something involves doing it. Oddly, the dictionary doesn't see it this way. demonstrate To show clearly and distinctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Fat Old Guy, My bad! Ed Mori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManyIrons Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Based on the original question, and subsequent information, I believe that the BOR members should be having a discussion with the Scoutmaster. If the board has good reason to believe the boy has not done the requirements then the Scoutmaster should be asked why he, or others, are improperly signing off on advancement. While the board is prohibited from retesting a candidate, they should not be put in the position of approving a Scoutmaster's "pencil-whipping". FOG, we have that same Mom in our troop -- plus a father or two and a grandfather as well. I've got some additional comments about the doing/demonstrating discussion that I'll have to post later -- right now it's time for church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 "Present yourself to your leader, properly dressed, before going on an overnight camping trip. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it." If a boy came to me in his field uniform and showed me a backpack with only a toothbrush in it, no sleeping bag, no other clothes, no other ANYTHING and then showed me the correct way to put it in the backpack and carried it properly I would sign off on that requirement. He met all facets of the requirement. Did he pack the proper items? No. Was he prepared? No. Are those requirements? No. It really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManyIrons Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Okay, I misread the original question. I'll blame it on my haste to make it to church on time and this head cold I'm trying to get rid of. When I went re-read the initial post I realized that it didn't say the boy had never done his packing only that he apparently doesn't do it currently. If that's the case, then the BOR should (as has already been said) follow their procedures: verify all actions for the rank have been completed, obtain feedback on how the boy feels about his Scouting experience, and to encourage him to continue progressing. Now, of course if the board feels something was signed off improperly then it's a different matter, but not the one originally presented here (and misinterpreted by me). As to the discussion on a Scout's ability to demonstrate a skill (and retain it), well I think that's best left for a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouterPaul Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Ed and FOG I would be interested to know why your method of packing is so complicated that a Scout couldn't learn how to do it without actually packing. Our Troop uses the bag of bags method. A new scout can learn how to pack correctly by a simple visual observation. No hands on or practice required. On page 230 of the Boy Scout Handbook introduces the bag of bags concept and also how to load a Pack. A Scout could read this section and tell you how to pack. I know how to perform the Heimlich Manuever. However, I have never actual perfomed it. I can demonstrate the manuever, I can show how the manuever is performed and I can explain the proper way to perform it. I can do all of these without actually ever having performed the manuever. Just my 2 cents worth. It sounds as if the Scout is to be punished based on personal standards. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I'm not speaking for Fat Old Guy but I don't recall anyone saying it is complicted. My point is if mom always packs for the Scout, he probably doesn't know what is in his bag let alone how to pack it! The requirement says show the correct way to pack you bag. It's probably the simplest requirement! And easily taught. The hard part is getting mom to let teh Scout do it himself. Ed Mori A blessed Christmas to all! 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouterPaul Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Thanks Ed I think you pointed out the primary difference between you interpretation and mine of this reqirement. My belief is that the requirement is that the Scout isn't required to pack his bag. Getting the mother to let the boy "fly" is a different isssue. I believe that a Scout should do for himself. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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