frank10 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 FOG: Define pack. I tell the guys to never unpack. They just insert cloths and tie their sleeping bag on to the pack. Other than that the gear from last time is the same as this time. If it's just a single item, then there isn't a problem. If he is standing around on the campout like he's waiting for his mother to do the dishes then there is a problem. As for your wife, she may pack more than you, but I bet she lets you lug it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted December 19, 2003 Author Share Posted December 19, 2003 For wingnut, pack bifucated reflexive verb to assemble items needed for an outing and place these items into an appropriate container for the excursion. Never unpack? Don't clean the mess kit? Don't dry out the pack? Nasty. BTW, you're right, I do get to tote my wife's luggage and I'm lucky that she let's me do it. :-) Bob White, please pay attention, I know that's hard for you but do try. The question from Scoutmaster Ron was, "Is it a question he . . .doesn't know what to bring?" As usual, you make every effort to ignore the question at hand and attempt to give yourself another soapbox to stand on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Thank you for your concern but I was not responding to Ron's question, I was responding to the question that was the subject of the thread. Why do you constantly feel the need to make personal attacks on me? Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 FOG asked, "It's in the handbook, isn't it" relating to knowing what to pack. It sure is, but regardless of how many times I tell my son it's there, he usually won't bother with that page. He did, however, when he was asked to show a new and older Scout how to use his handbook. When they came home from camping, my son points out the page on how to pack to me--lol! He's just 11 and not in Scouting for a year yet, so he's learning and I'm not worried about this as an issue for him. What was neat to see was his motivation: needing to know to help out someone else This is what I love about Scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank10 Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 FOG: Never unpack? Don't clean the mess kit? Sure I clean it before I put it away, do you bring your dirty dishes home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted December 20, 2003 Author Share Posted December 20, 2003 BW said,"Thank you for your concern but I was not responding to Ron's question, I was responding to the question that was the subject of the thread. " Oh, how you disemble. You quoted my response to Scoutmaster Ron, so you weren't responding to the original question. "Why do you constantly feel the need to make personal attacks on me?" Because you are so duplicitous as evidenced by your statements here. "Sure I clean it before I put it away, do you bring your dirty dishes home?" It may be washed at the camp site but I still run it through the dishwasher when I come home, along with my stainless coffee mug. Laurie said, "It sure is, but regardless of how many times I tell my son it's there, he usually won't bother with that page." I must be an ogre. I haven't helped my son pack since he was a Webleos. For summer camp, he gets the list of suff and is responsible for packing. For regular camping, he gets the list and it is up to him to pack. If something is left behind, too bad. Oddly, he hasn't forgotten anything important in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Funny, FOG, my kids and some fellow Scouters think *I* am an ogre! My son did not camp in Cubs; he joined as a second-year Webelos, and his first camping trip was with the troop a week prior to bridging. My husband and I knew nothing of the camp, what was required, etc., so I did help my son. Usually I will not, except to point out resources that will help him. I don't think he had a great start to camping, because he simply had no preparation other than what I helped him with: how to roll his sleeping bag, how to pack his gear, etc. Hmmmmm, I guess I've met someone who is more of an ogre than me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Sticks and stones FOG. I gave no counter thought claim or or action to what I had said. Unless you have redifined duplicitous you have no foundation for your claim. You do not like the fact that mom packed the bag, that's fine, counsel the scout. But the board of review has no authority to withhold advancement based on something not required by the handbook in order to advance. The BOR needs to stick to it's purpose not create new ones. You need to stick to the topic and stop attacking me. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted December 20, 2003 Author Share Posted December 20, 2003 "You need to stick to the topic and stop attacking me." Ha! Ha, ha, ha, ho! Ho, hi, he, ho-whoooo, ha, he! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted December 20, 2003 Author Share Posted December 20, 2003 Bob White blathered, "You do not like the fact that mom packed the bag, that's fine, counsel the scout. But the board of review has no authority to withhold advancement based on something not required by the handbook in order to advance." Ah, but it is required to advance, it is required for Tenderfoot which would mean that if he never packed his own bag, he shouldn't be sitting in a BOR for Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 You have misunderstood the requirement. "Present yourself to your leader, properly dressed, before going on an overnight camping trip. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it. It does not say to pack your own pack. It says show the right way to do it. Assuming you taught the scout in the troop meeting how to do it, then you should see a pack done in that fashion. If the scout was able to teach someone else how to follow those instructions then indeed he must understand how to do it. In testing the scout, I would have him show how the bag was packed and be able to explain why it was packed in that way. If the bag was packed correctly, and the scout knows why it is correct, then he has met the requirement. Scouting needs counselors and leaders not ogres. Simply stated, Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Heck, I'm a SM and I don't pack my own stuff most of the time. I need to race home from work, run around like a whirling dervish and make a dash for the church for most outings. I tell my boys (Life and recent 1st Class) to pack for me. Once, I let them have it for not packing my tent ground cloth and fogetting my mess kit. Of course, they rightly told me to pack it myself if I didn't like the way they did it. I've never checked their stuff other than ask them as we are leaving, did you remember to bring something (warm, dry, swimsuit, hat, etc. Never more than one item). Now I could take BW and others advice to pack the night before but come on. I would loose my world's greatest procrastinator title if I did that! A good cure for this problem is to have his mother pack old newspapers only for his next trip. She would only have to do it once before he got the message! The items I never forget to bring are the items I've forgotten once. It is a great motivator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Interesting idea Bob White, show how to do something without actually doing it. Very interesting. Stapler guy said, "A good cure for this problem is to have his mother pack old newspapers only for his next trip" Wouldn't work. Mom is a major part of the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 The problem appears to be the leader's misunderstanding of the advancement requirements. The Scout must do what the requirement states. No more, no less. The requirement is "Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it." FOGs concern is that I want the Scout to show how to do it rather than doing it. Well according to the requirement the showing is what is required. The problem is not Mom. My guess is mom is trying to get junior to the campout on time. The problem is a leader, or leaders, who want the scout to do what they want, and not what the program requires. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Ah Bob White, running the words around Maggie's Barn again. I simply would like you to explain to me how someone can show you how to pack without actually doing it. If I showed you how to tie a bowline, I'd wind up with a bowline in my hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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