Religious reference letter for Eagle

[Bob White]

WHOA Trail Pounder These were your words not mine "I resigned myself to the fact, that because of church, I couldn't finish.

 

Then when I point out that no church was involved you said "I'm not blaming any church"

 

Which is it?

 

You said you are not blaming the church? I did not read where you held anyone else responsible?

 

Bob White

[LovetoCamp]

What I was trying to say was Because "I" didn't go to church, and that "I" thought a minister had to sign the letter of recommendation, that "I" resigned myself to the fact that "I" wasn't going to finish the Eagle, because of my interpretation of the requirements. Jeeeesh!

[dsteele]

Daggone it! I've gone and extended the nozzle of my Indian Pump. Going to have to shoot some water at something. I hope it's not you guys.

 

I'll be at the Chanticleer on October 9th at about 9:00 PM.

 

DS

[evmori]

"In all due respect Trail Pounder you cannot blame your lack of achieving Eagle on any church you did not attend. You did not complete the Eagle rank because you did not complete the Eagle rank requirements, isn't that correct?"

 

Reading between the lines again, I see!!

 

The way I read it was because he didn't go to church he coulsn't finish. Nowhere in his post did he blame the church. That's where the reading between the lines came in.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Give it a rest Ed, as Trail Pounder said "What I was trying to say was Because "I" didn't go to church, and that "I" thought a minister had to sign the letter of recommendation, that "I" resigned myself to the fact that "I" wasn't going to finish the Eagle, because of my interpretation of the requirements."

 

Now that I can agree with, but that is not the explanation he gave at first. The problem was not the church. In fact the problem was never the church or Trail's attendance or lack of attendance at a church. The problem was that Trail "resigned himself to the fact that he wasn't going to finish". He could have completed the requirements if he had chosen to. He could have pursued the question of how to establish his obedience to the Oath and Law. He chose not to. Trail Pounder was a boy at the time and had a boy's perspective of the problem. Had there been someone there who understood the advancement requirements and who had helped him earlier on to establish measuarable evidence of his activities in relation to his duty to God, then he might be an Eagle today.

 

But it wasn't the scouting program or organized religion that kept him from Eagle. It was people not communicating that created his problems.

 

Bob White

[evmori]

Give what a rest, Bob? No where in the original post did Trail Pounder blame anyone for not earning Eagle. That's what you got from the post, and frankly, I went back & re-read it & have no clue where you got your interpretation from.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

[LovetoCamp]

Bob White, unbutton your top button. Pounder

 

 

[Bob White]

Thanks Pounder, tuck in your shirt.

(I'm not sure what we just sid to each other, it must be some kinda code.)

[JCYoung]

Hi all,

I know that I am new to this forum and all but having earned my Eagle Scout when I was 17 years old I saw younger Scouts run into some of the same problems. As Scout Leaders it is our duty to our Scouts to make sure that they truly understand just what is expected and "Required" to advance to the rank of Eagle.

Just attending church does not mean that you are living up to the Scout Oath of being reverent any more than by not attending church regularly and yet still holding to your beliefs and possessing a strong positive character that exemplifies what a true Scout is. It can be frustrating to a young boy who is told that just because you don't attend this church or that church you don't live upto the Scout oath (But then again Jesus was also ridiculed for his actions).

 

[evmori]

JCYoung,

Welcome to the campfire.

 

I couldn't agree with you more! Excellent points!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Eagle&CubMom]

Hello Gentlemen! My son is in this very predicament, as I am the primary driving force in the Religious Education of my children. I am uniquely qualified to do so because I have held the position of Director of Religious Education at two different congregations, both were temporary positions, but I have brought much of it into our home. Unfortunately, our church of choice (both 1st & 2nd, actually) are nearly an hour away each. This makes it difficult for us to make it, save for the occasional special event.

 

We are Unitarian Universalists and were VERY concerned with this particular expectation. My Life Scout had pretty much resigned to the fact that he'd not be able to complete his Eagle due to not attending a congregation routinely. We were overjoyed last March when the BSO & UUA signed the MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING: (http://www.uua.org/re/children/scouting/memorandum-understanding)

 

Due to the distance I mentioned, none of the current leadership at either of the churches we only occasionally attend have been able to interact with him as much as they'd like to in the last few years, which leaves me for writing that Religious recommendation. What can I expect? Should I include the memorandum? Or would that be too much? He has worked SO very hard on this and I want things to go smoothly for him.

 

Thank you for your time.

[andysmom]

In our council, if a Scout does not belong to a religious organization, a Scout's parents can act as the religious reference stating how their son demonstrates a duty to God.  As stated above, the ONLY reference that can be left blank is the employer reference if a scout is not employed.  We are required to have a religious, an educational and 2 personal references.

[NJCubScouter]

My son did not have a "religious leader" nor was he attending any services at the time he was approaching and making Eagle, so I wrote his "religious reference" letter for him.  I have also sat on about 15 Eagle BOR's and would say that in somewhere between 3 and 5 of these, the "religious letter" was written by a parent.  It has never been an issue.

 

Eagle&CubMom, if you were a director of religious education, you are far better equipped than I was to write such a letter.  I wouldn't overthink it.  I can tell you that it makes it a lot easier if your son has a specific belief in a particular religion, which was not the case with my son.   You can tie your son's religious beliefs to all of the good qualities that I am sure he has.

 

In my opinion, the history of the relationship between the UUA and BSA (which has been discussed in detail in this forum over the years) is beside the point.  I would not include any memoranda of understanding or any other documentation.  The issue is not what an organization believes or does, it is what your son believes and does and how the two relate to each other.

[perdidochas]

I was checking at our district office on the status of our current Eagle-to-be. Seems the only thing hanging up his BOR is that his religious reference letter hasn't yet come in. I then talked to the young man about it. Seems this was a church that he rarely (read holidays, maybe) attended in Texas quite a few years ago. He's not even sure this pastor is still at this church. His family does not attend church anywhere here in Alaska. I know that a scout swears to do "duty to God" and "to be reverent", but does he have to have a home church and be in regular enough attendance to be known by a spiritual leader? What do I do with a scout who is not attending church? Where do they get a religious reference? What should this young man do if no reference letter returns from this church in Texas? He says he went to a youth group a handful of times on a military base but doesn't even know the youth leader's name to use him for a reference. What do I do to assist this young man? Or is this simply between the young man and the district office at this point? Charity Advancement Chair(This message has been edited by CharityAK)

I believe the application says that the parents can do the religious letter.  Also, there is no requirement that any reference letters be returned to the Council before an EBOR. The requirement is that the Scout provides the names and their contact information, not that the references have to actually be done.

 

From the Guide to Advancement:

 

9.0.1.7 References Contacted

Council advancement committee members—or others designated—have the responsibility to secure recommendations from the references appearing under requirement 2 on the Eagle Scout Rank Application. This may be done by letter, form, or phone call. For reasons of privacy and confidentiality, electronic submissions are discouraged. It is acceptable to send or deliver to the references an addressed envelope with instructions, and perhaps a form to complete. The Scout may assist with this, but that is the limit of his participation. He is not to be responsible for follow-through or any other aspect of the process.

It is up to the council’s designated representatives to collect the responses. If after a reasonably diligent effort no response can be obtained from any references, the board of review must go on without them. It must not be postponed or denied for this reason, and the Scout shall not be asked to submit additional references or to provide replacements.

Completed reference responses of any kind are the property of the council and are confidential, and only review-board members and those officials with a specific need may see them. The responses are not to be viewed by or returned to the Scout. Doing so could discourage the submission of negative information. For the same reason, those providing references do not have the option of giving the reference directly to the Scout and shall not be given the option of waiving confidentiality. Once a review has been held, or an appeal process conducted, responses shall be returned to the council, where they will be destroyed after the Eagle Scout credentials are released or the appeal is concluded.

[perdidochas]

Being a member of a church isn't a requirement. He needs a letter of reference from a religious leader. He could set up an appointment with a pastor in a local church to discuss this. After they talk this pastor might be willing to write a letter of recommendation. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

The Scout's parents are allowed to write the religious reference. Per the Guide to Advancement:

 

 

References: Must list all six (five if not employed). If not affiliated with an organized religion, then the parent or guardian provides this reference.