Board of Review problem

[hotdesk]

I have talked to our District Eagle Board Coordinator, also the troop Committee Advancment Chairman, about SM Conferences and Board of Reviews.

 

What he said has that the final stage for the troop to test your skills for the rank is Scoutmaster Conference. If you can do it then good, if not then they should hold you back until you can do what the rank ask of you.

 

He also said that one too many times he has had to stop Eagle Boards because they started to test skills. The board had to be reschulded with different memembers.

 

So what he basically said that any board of review, for any rank, has to trust that the SM, ASMS, and JASMs did there job, of testing you, and that you know the stuff.

 

Check out the Troop Committee Guidebook.

[NeilLup]

Hello AdvanceOn,

 

A couple more thoughts. You might involve your District Advancement Chairman in this also. It certainly is possible to have Boards of Review as a Roundtable topic with a model Board of Review. You then just need to be sure that the people from this Troop go to that Roundtable.

 

Also, concerning the Commissioner on the Board, you can show them in "black and white" that the Board of Review for ranks other than Eagle Scout is comprised of Troop Committee members. That is in the Advancement Rules and Regulations book (probably not the exact title). So, as a Commissioner, he or she is not appropriate as a BOR member except, perhaps, as an observer. Certainly not as a voting member.

[AdvanceOn]

I talked with this Unit Commissioner and quoted the pieces out of the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures. I made sure I had them in front of me before I called him.

 

I agree about having Board of REview as a topic at roundtable. I've talked with our Advancement chair a few times. He tends to focus on Eagle boards and very little else. But, I'll keep working on it.

 

Up until this most recent roundtable, no one from this troop has come except the Scoutmaster. That is part of the problem. These people are ignorant to the requirements. They're still just a bunch of parents, not trained leaders. Also working to change that soon.

[JimmyD]

Geez my first class board of review was like 15-20 mintues thats how all of them hould be except for eagle and maybe life. An hour for a first class board of review is way too long.

[Fat Old Guy]

"They're still just a bunch of parents, not trained leaders. Also working to change that soon."

 

Training alone doesn't help. A change of attitude is also required.

[AdvanceOn]

"Training alone doesn't help. A change of attitude is also required."

 

Agree. But training is a good start. Also, from what I've heard about most of the individuals involved (with the exception of one or two) they want to do things the right way they just don't know what the right way is.

 

Now, maybe I'm an unusual self starter but I personally went out and bought the books so that I could find the answers when I first got started. These people didn't.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Now, maybe I'm an unusual self starter but I personally went out and bought the books so that I could find the answers when I first got started. These people didn't."

 

You are unusual.

 

Look at the relatively few Scouters show up at Roundtable, Pow Wow or University of Scouting. Those are the people who want to learn, the rest are just putting in time.

[Fat Old Guy]

"He also said that one too many times he has had to stop Eagle Boards because they started to test skills. The board had to be reschulded with different memembers. "

 

I've been told that in mythe district in which the troop that I serve is located, any subject in the Handbook is fair game. They ask questions about Scout History. Ask them to tie knots. Bandage ankles.

[Eagle1984]

FOG,

 

 

As stated, a Board of Review is just that. It is not a test of skill(s). The scout is only asked questions about skills learned, activities participated in and so on. You CANNOT retest a scout on any kind of skill during a BOR. This was or should have been done during the SM Conference. I have had to stop and inform 1 committee member during a BOR that this is in direct violation of the Advancment guidelines.(This message has been edited by Eagle1984)

[mich632]

Sounds so familar.

When I took over as scoutmaster our BOR took about 1 hour and the boys were tested on every requirement.

 

I sat down with them and reviewed the troop committee guidebook which states, "The board of review is not a time to retest the Scout, but to determine the Scout's attitude and his acceptance of Scouting ideals."

 

It the beginning I met with resistance, but after a year they have become comfortable with their job.

 

I am now getting good feedback from them. They talk with the scouts and can provide me with insight as to the strengths and weaknesses of the program.

 

BOR now take 5-10 minutes for tenderfoot and 15-30 minutes for Life scout.

 

So train the committee, work with the committee and don't give up.

 

Good luck.

[evmori]

The testing should be done prior to the requirement being signed off. Now if during a BOR it is apparent to the board the Scout has no clue about a requirement(s), asking the Scout to do the requirement(s) wouldn't be out of line.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[scoutldr]

Sounds like retesting to me, Ed. Then what if he can't do it? Does he fail the BOR?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Let's say the Scout is asked to tie the bowline at a BOR. He fails to tie it correctly you threaten to fail him but Mom decides to challenge you on grounds that you are adding to the requirements. So you relent. Later, the Scout is 100 feet up on a cliff and needs to be able to tie that particular knot to get to safety. He figures that it was not important then and therefore it must not be important now to tie the knot correctly. He slaps together some kind of overhand knot and out he goooooes.

 

Sometimes taking an extra step or helping a Scout for a little longer pays off. Some requirements are generally not as critical as others but we do go places and do things that proficiency pays off for all those concerned. You can be the judge when safety is at stake.

 

FB

[NeilLup]

FuzzyBear comments: "Let's say the Scout is asked to tie the bowline at a BOR. He fails to tie it correctly you threaten to fail him but Mom decides to challenge you on grounds that you are adding to the requirements. So you relent."

 

A very interesting question. However, rightly or wrongly, what you have outlined is NOT the function of the Board of Review. Let's say that the Board of Review did retest this knot and the boy did fine. However, they didn't retest a first aid item and that is what the boy doesn't know. Then another scene like the one you outlined occurs.

 

Is it then the job of the BOR to retest every requirement? Answer: IT IS NOT THE JOB OF THE BOR TO RETEST. Among other things, the BOR members are Troop Committee members who, presumably, are less knowledgeable on outdoor and other skills than are the SM and the older Scouts.

 

It is the job of the SM, the ASMs and particularly the older Scouts to teach, test and verify skills. If the BOR concludes that a particular Scout needs additional skill instructions, then they give that challenge to the Scout, to the SM, to the Scouts PL, etc. They may suggest to the Scout that he may voluntarily wish to defer his advancement until he has the skill. But they do NOT retest and do not defer advancement because of their judgement that a Scout does not have a particular skill in the face of the older Scouts and the SM saying that he does have this skill.

 

However, they certainly can take the SM to the woodshed afterwards if they conclude that skill instruction and testing is not happening.

 

At least that's how I understand it works.

[evmori]

scoutldr,

Not retesting. Just verifying the requirements weren't "rubber stamped". It would do the Scout a disservice to pass him on a BOR if he truly didn't complete all the requirements for that rank.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10