Alternate Leadership Requirements

[packsaddle]

To my knowledge, we've never used the alternate requirements and no one has ever asked. I knew about it...I've just been too busy or too stupid to understand what it means.

[evmori]

Unless it recently changed, an APL (Assistant Patrol Leader) isn't a POR for rank requirements.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[mk9750]

We have had two boys who over the course of two or three years, just could not get themselves elected or appointed to POS. I don't mean to sound judgemental, but it was understandable. The SM used this option to provide an oppurtunity for both boys to advance. They were both given younger boys who were struggling to advance, and were basically appointed to be individual Troop guides for these younger Scouts, guiding them to advancement. One had to get a kid from just short of Tenderfoot to 2nd class in order to make Star, and the other had to get a kid who had been stuck on Tenderfoot a long time to 1st class. This second one was the subject of my piece in the 4 styles of leadership thread. The older Scout fulfilled this requirement for his POS for Eagle Scout.

 

I have mixed emotions as to whether the use of this option is good or not. I know in both of these guys' cases, they were never going to be elected or appointed, and I know that they showed a tremedous amount of leadership to accomplish what they did. If all instances were like these, I'd say OK. But FOG's example certainly exhibits the other side of the coin, and I'd have a tough time accepting it.

 

sidebar -

 

During the most heated (ugliest) of the spears and arrows being chucked at Bob White, I made a conscious decision to ignore Fat Old Guy as a rude, overbearing creature who was not participating in this forum in the way I think we are expected. But I have been paying attention to his posts over the last few weeks, and noticed a decided shift in his demeanor. Even when I have disagreed with him, he has expressed his opinion with relative politeness, and I think he should be congratulated for being more civil.

 

I am sure my approval means nothing to you, FOG, but I'd like you to know I am coming to appreciate you being here more and more. I suspect you're differences with Bob will never go away, but as long as you act like you have been, like Ed has acted even though he and Bob disagree adamantly, I'd like to be able to reverse my treatment of you. I hope you'll accept.

 

Mark

[Fat Old Guy]

"Is this the only sticking point in this Scout's advancement to his next rank? Sounds like there might be more! Fat Old Guy, could you answer this for us?"

 

He was a PL which sufficed for Star but his daddy encouraged him to step down and seek a new position for Life. Well, daddy became insensed over the idea that junior might have to wait until a position vacated. He insisted that the SM vacate a POR for his son so that he could get the advancement that he'd already earned (in daddy's mind).

 

Daddy views advancement as a right and Eagle as the goal of Boy Scouting.

 

 

[Laurie]

But how did the dad get to call the shots? It sounds as though he just took over as leader in this case--maybe not officially, but certainly in calling the shots with his son. Poor kid--sounds like a tug of war.

[dan]

mk9750

Give it time, he will show his true colors again. He seems to me, to be a very intellegent bitter man.

 

 

[evmori]

Cheap shot Dan. Fat Old Guy has a lot to offer this forum. If you don't like his demeanor at least ve civil about it! What you posted was like the pot calling the kettle black!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[LovetoCamp]

dan, jeesh that was rude!

[Fat Old Guy]

To dan, "Brrrrrrrruuuuuuuuupp!"

[Fat Old Guy]

"But how did the dad get to call the shots? It sounds as though he just took over as leader in this case--maybe not officially, but certainly in calling the shots with his son. Poor kid--sounds like a tug of war. "

 

When it comes to Scouting, his kids do exactly what he wants. They take the merit badges that he tells them to. They take the positions that he tells them to. His whole reason for being involved in Scouting is to see to it that his sons become Eagles.

[dan]

Yall should have seen what I wrote the 1st time and decided that it sounded too much like fog to post it!

So I take it yall do not think his is intelligent?

 

Ed

Here are a few quotes from your friend fog.

 

I think that the current handbook sucks. I even think that many BSA policies suck

 

As for antagonizing people, I only intentionally do that to close minded, pompous book thumpers or those who can't communicate in standard English and blame me for not understanding them.

 

However, when a 15 year old boy has bigger boobs than a Playboy Playmate and can't walk a mile without collapsing, he is dangerously out of shape.

You 2 are alot alike!

 

Trailpounder

Look at this thread and then comment

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=32869#id_33240

 

fog

that be their a really goody one, ya shure got me on that there one.(This message has been edited by dan)

[Fat Old Guy]

" think that the current handbook sucks.

 

It does. Many agree with me.

 

"I even think that many BSA policies suck"

 

I also think that many laws suck, some rules in baseball suck, NBA basketball sucks, and $1.75/gal. for gas sucks. So? Do you like everything in the known universe?

 

"As for antagonizing people, I only intentionally do that to close minded, pompous book thumpers or those who can't communicate in standard English and blame me for not understanding them."

 

So?

 

"However, when a 15 year old boy has bigger boobs than a Playboy Playmate and can't walk a mile without collapsing, he is dangerously out of shape."

 

Do you contest this? Do you think that the described youth is in shape?

[evmori]

Wow Dan! Sounds like you need a little more fiber in your diet! So you don't like the way Fat Old Guy says things? You are entitled to your opinion. And Fat Old Guy as well as everyone else is entitled to theirs. And we are all entitled to say it the way we please! So I guess what I am trying to say is get over it, Dan! Fat Old Guy was giving his opinion in his own honest way!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle]

Wow! When I read Dan's message I thought he was talking about the pushy dad, not FOG. But I see I was wrong. Dan, we can find all sorts of faults in almost anyone if we look hard enough. OK, so FOG has some rough edges. Big deal! He has delightfully eclectic taste in food...except perhaps for nuveau cuisine, who can blame him? Look for the good, you'll find that too.

[NWScouter]

When I was a Scoutmaster a few years back I used the alternative leadership project quite a few times. All the situations were the same. Our troop was in the mid thirties size and we had young scouts earning their first class in May, after about a year in the troop. There just werent enough leadership positions and by the end of summer camp some of the scouts would have all the merit badges for Star. Our next court of honor was in late September or October after their four month time in rank. I had theses scouts volunteer to be Den Chiefs at day camps in the area. My thought would be that during those four months they would be doing more hands on leadership than some of POR would be doing.

I was talking to one of my friends who is Day Camp director now and said that she might use this idea to see if they might interest troops to use it for she was really short on Den Chiefs. She said National Standards now say if a Den Chief is not a Day Camp where his parent is working he must be 14. Many of my scouts used the Day Camp Den Chief on their application to be S.I.T. at camp at age 14. Now the day camps have to compete with Scout Camp Staff for the best younger staff.

I never though would use it with scouts going for Life and Eagle.