Camping badge - can we count family camping in 20 nights?

[MaScout]

It was fun to see this brought up... I agree that the requirements do not state who you must camp with, it just wants you camping in a tent YOU pitched or under the stars, not in a cabin. 20 nights is not hard to accomplish, but it DOES take some planning (preferably by the troop, but it can be within the family). Our Troop routinely schedules more than 30 nights camping per year. The patrols may add more. Once upon a time (a couple years ago) my son logged in 87 days/nights in a 13 week period. BTW -- there is a cool patch available for Scouts & Scouters who earn 100, 250, & 1000 days/nights cumulatively over their Scouting career. These can be anywhere/anyhow (in a tent!) approved by the SM.

[evmori]

The requirement does not state whether camping needs to be done with the troop or can be done with your family or other groups.

 

Therefore, you would have to accept all camping (with troop, with family, with other groups of friends). You may not change, add or delete from any requirements. Why some scoutmasters feel they can do this is beyond comprehension.

 

A scout is trustworthy! What kind of message does the scoutmaster send when he insists camping be done with the troop?

 

You have to follow the rules of how the requirement is written is the bottom line & there is NO specification there.

 

I am stating my opinion not only as a parent but as a Scout leader and Merit Badge Dean.

 

Thank you.

 

And since there is no specification, it's up to the counselor whether they will accept camping outside the Troop.

 

You're Welcome!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

"And since there is no specification, it's up to the counselor whether they will accept camping outside the Troop."

 

The specification is crystal clear. It is up to the counselor to accept the camping nights as specifed in the merit badge booklet; not to impose a more restrictive counselor requirement.

[evmori]

Show experience in camping by doing the following:

 

1. Camp a total of at least 20 days and nights. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long-term camp excluded).

 

The requirement doesn't state where or whom with the camping is to be completed. That leaves it up to the discretion of the counselor.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

Ed, with all due respect, you are wrong.

 

Where, or with whom the camping must take place is NOT a requirement of the merit badge. If it was, the MB booklet would so state.

 

A merit badge counselor has no authority or discretion to restrict camping nights to suit his personal agenda.

[evmori]

FScouter,

Don't think I am wrong. Since the requirement doesn't specify, if a camping MB counselor doesn't want to accept family camping he/she doesn't have to.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[kittle]

My son just recently (last month) met with the camping merit badge counselor. The couselor asked him to get his camping record from the SM or committee member that keeps track of this. I wrote the dates down, just to see how many camping days he had. He joined last Feb.

 

March: 2 d/n

April: 2 d/n

May: skipped because of a family graduation

June: no campout

July: 6 day summer camp

August: 2 d/n

September: 2 d/n

October: 2 d/n

November: 2 d/n

December: no campout

January: indoor campout

February: 1 d/n (weather brought them home, but that is another story)

March: 2d/n

April: 2 d/n

May: campout was canceled because SM's husband had surgery

 

That gave him 23 days/nights camping. He also wrote down family camping: July 5 days and nights and September 4 days and nights. He also had 4 days and nights of camping (in a tent) at church camp.

 

I would have no problem giving a boy credit for family camping, or other camping, if I knew he was helping to set up camp and taking care of duties while at the camp.

 

[Hunt]

Just to clarify this question of whether the MBC "must" accept nights of family camping...the MBC is not supposed to add or subtract from the requirements, but it is left to the MBC to interpret what they mean. As far as I know, the only recourse if a scout or leader doesn't agree with a MBC's interpretation is to go get another MBC (and to no longer user that MBC--and perhaps to try to get him or her dropped from the list). I do think there is some room for interpretation in what it means to "camp." Personally, I think family or similar camping should count--but I wouldn't count a night in the backyard with an extension cord and a TV. Even though that might be in a tent, I don't think it's really "camping." A MBC might draw that line somewhere else--for example, my family once went to the beach and "camped" in a large commercial campground, although we did sleep in a tent. Is that "camping" for the purposes of the merit badge? I personally would be embarrassed to suggest that it count, but I think it would be up to the MBC to decide whether to admit it. On the other hand, if a boy and his parent go backpacking on the Appalachian Trail and sleep in tents, I think it would be wrong of a MBC not to accept those nights as part of the 20. In other words, I think it is legitimate for a MBC to insist that the 20 nights be "real camping," but not that it be Boy Scout camping.

[evmori]

Hunt,

I would agree. I would further state that camping done prior to the SM signing the MB card is up to the discretion of the MB counselor to count or not count.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Oak Tree]

I will likewise agree with Hunt. The counselor does not have the authority to disallow family camping, although he/she can put some boundaries around what "camping" means. But you can't completely redefine the word.

 

Why would you want to, anyway? It seems like encouraging family camping is a good thing.

 

Hunt, you should at least count the beach camping for your 100 night patch, in my opinion.

 

Oak Tree

[LongHaul]

As a counselor for Camping merit badge I too run into this discussion from time to time. While I agree with Ed that what constitutes camping can fall under the discretion of the counselor I question the practice of limiting the boy to things done after a blue card is signed. In the 60s there were stipulations such as while a Second Class Scout , demonstrate to the satisfaction of your Scoutmaster, and after discussing with your counselor today most of those are gone. Even approved by your counselor doesnt mean approved before it is done. The guide line I was given by a representative of National was If the work in question would have been approved if the scout had presented it before he did it, then denying it just because he didnt get approval before hand is improper. Examples would be Backpacking requirement 11b complete a service project approved by your counselor does not say approved before you do it. If the project is one that would have been approved, failure to get prior approval should not be the sole reason for non acceptance. Communications merit badge requirement 6. With your counselors approval, develop a plan to teach a skill... implies prior approval and failure to do so could be seen as grounds for non acceptance. Allowing only camping done after a specific date, other than the date of initial registration in BSA, could be seen as adding to the requirements. Also requiring those nights to be done within a specific period, such as within the last two years as with OA eligibility, could also be seen as adding to the requirements.

When does work on a merit badge begin? When the boy first talks with his Scoutmaster? When a boy first develops an interest in a topic? Ive collected stamps and coins since I was 5. I have a large collections of U.S. pennies. Should a collection I started before entering Scouting be disallowed and only coins acquired after attaining First Class (we didnt work on merit badges before attaining First Class) be allowed? What exactly are we as counselors trying to accomplish? If the scouts work reaches that goal thats what is important.

As to counting Family Camping for scout badges I am reminded of the scout who presented himself for Backpacking merit badge some years ago. Back then you had to take three hikes of at least three days and one hike of at least five days. This scout had lead four of his frieds on a 21 day trek in the Grand Tetons. He mapped out an itinerary which allowed them to pick up supplies every four days and he kept an extensive journal along with his original plan. Should I have refused to accept the work because he was the only scout? Should I have refused the work because he didn't return "home" every three days and start over on a "seperate hike" When it says Plan a patrol backpacking hike does that mean the members of the patrol must be registered scouts? This was one badge I was proud to sign off on. This boy's scouting experience provided the skills and abilities to allow these young men to do something they might not have otherwise been able to do. They have a memory for a life time made possible in part by the Scouting program.

LongHaul

 

[BrentAllen]

I can't even imagine asking for family camping to count towards the merit badge.

 

I enjoy the rationalizing I see. You either can add to the requirements (or have a different interpretation), or you can't. If you agree that you can't, and the requirement must be taken exactly as written -

 

Camp out a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. (You may use a week of long-term

camp toward this requirement.) Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have

pitched.

 

then a Scout throwing up a tent in his backyard for the summer and sleeping in it will meet the requirements. Now there is a Scout who will completely understand the Patrol method!

[janssenil]

Hi - hey I see several camping badge counselors out there so can I take this opportunity to ask about a couple of other camping badge requirement?

 

My son has completed all the requirments for this badge except part of 9b. For that requirment he must do 2 of the following:

Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 2,000 vertical feet.

Backpack for at least four miles.

Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.

Plan and carry out a float trip of at least four hours.

Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.

 

He has taken the bike trip and he has rappeled down a 65 foot 'silo' at an indoor climbing facility.

 

The issue is that his SM says the 65 foot silo doesn't count because the requirement refers to actually rappelling down a mountain. I've never been to the indoor facility but have read about it on their website so I know it exists and I know my son has done it. What I don't know is much about climbing and whether or not the SM is justified in not counting it as rapelling?

 

Can I have an opinion? My son has completed his Climbing Merit badge at another indoor climbing facility.

 

One other question - it looks like the requirment for hiking up the mountain changed from 2000 veritical feet to 1000 veritical feet. What if a boys climbs the 1000 vertical feet before the requirement changed?

 

[MaScout]

Who is the MB Counselor? Is it the SM? Is there another one available? Will that MB Counselor approve the silo?

 

The MB Counselor is the one who determines if the requirements for a MB have been met, not the SM.

[LongHaul]

As a Camping Merit Badge Counselor I have not seen any reference to "mountain" with regard to the requirement in question. At our summer camp the boys are given credit for the rappel portion after rappelling from a 50 foot tower on the High Cope range. Regardless of the fact that I personally have never understood what this has to do with Camping Merit Badge skills, I see no stipulation as to where the rappel must take place only that it must be 30 feet or more in duration. Actually one could rappel down the side of a mountain for 30 feet and not descend 30 feet vertically. Which is not to say that I believe the requirement stipulates a 30 foot vertical decent.

LongHaul