Should the BSA revise the age ranges

[Bob White]

Foto, unless the cope course director has foloowed every safety rule and operated that course correctly and all the gear was in approved condition that hold harmless form is worthless. You can have all the paperwork signed you want but if you are careless in the execution of the activity then that paper is worthless. If you do everything right the paperwork is unnecessary.

 

How could we set a rule that a boy scout must be able to swim but not a cub scout? Where is the sense in that? especially in a vessel as unstable as a canoe? There are plenty of other adventures you can give a cub scout and stay within the the rules.

 

By the way you are correct that finding lifeguards for every non-swimmer is impractical. It exists not because the BSA does not want yopu to canoe, but because they don't want you to canoe with non-swimmers. So if you want to take a non-swimmer out into the water on a boat that can easily capsize then you put a lifeguard right there with him because he is gonna need one. It a matter of Be Prepared.

 

Wanting to do things that are just beyond their capabilities is a common trait of growing boys. That doesn't mean as leaders we give in to it.

 

There are plenty of adventures available to cubs, except for some that as responsible leaders we are required to control or avoid. Focus on the ones we can do.

 

Bob White

[caddmommy]

I have no problems with the age group for cub scouting or when they are able to become boy scouts. my problem is the ending age for boy scouts and venturing crews.

 

My son has joined a venture crew that supports his counsels scout camp. I have no problem with the crew or anything. A problem has arose concerning parental involvement which, I feel, is do to the age requirements. (he does both troop and crew activities)

 

I would like to see the age of "adulthood" the same for boy scouts and crew members.

 

As I understand it, a boy scout is considered an adult at age 18. He is no longer able to advance and if he wishes to continue in the troop he becomes a junior scoutmaster. He is under the rules that applies to adults and is considered an adult in troop activities.

 

Crew members are not considered adults unto 21. So on crew activities, anyone between 18-21 need to have "adult supervision". Most parents do not want to get envolved with the crew because their children are "old enough" to be on their own. Granted, there are less adults needed for these events but still why the age difference.

 

I am for the 18 age for crew and them have junior leaders until 21.

 

[silver-shark]

caddmommy

 

These are good questions, but you have the actual details a little confused.

 

First, Boy Scouts are up until the 18th Birthday. After that they can become an Assistant Scoutmaster not a Junior Scoutmaster, with a Boy Scout Troop, or join a Venturing Crew.

 

A Junior Scoutmaster is a boy at least 16 years of age in the troop, and does not count as an adult leader for the 2 deep rule.

 

Even though they are an ASM at 18, there still must be at least one adult 21 or over on an activity that involves the troop in addition to a second adult of at least 18. Two deep leadership.

 

The Boy Scout boys don't have to have an adult accompany them on patrol activities, as long as they have a plan approved by their SM, who must be at least 21 years of age. But, if one adult goes, there MUST be a second to meet the 2 deep leadership rule.

 

The Venturing advisors must be at least 21 years of age, and also don't have to accompany the VCs boys if there is an approved plan by the Advisor. But, if one goes, a second MUST go.

 

I hope this clarifies it some for you.

 

ss

 

 

[acco40]

My twelve year old son (he will be 13 in a few weeks) just came home from JLTC and taught me a new term. He kept refering to some of his JLT staff as "quasis." I asked him what that meant and he said that is the term they used (informally) for the 18-21 staff members. The boys realized that they were not "youth" like them but not quite like the "old as dirt" adults (over 21). By the way, the term was used in an endearing fashion and not in a derogatory way at all.

[yarrow]

Sorry to chime in late. I just found this forum. I think Padre has a point on the age variance and level. Not to compare but Girl Scouts have 5 levels based on grade level but also on an age range. A girl who is 12 and a sixth grader may be a Junior, but she may also opt to be in a Cadette troop. Depends on her maturity and on her parents choice for her. It also depends on the availability of troops in the area. Daisys are Kindergarden but also 5,6 year olds. Brownies include 1,2,3rd grade but the age range is 6-9 I think, so a 9 year old may be a Brownie or a Junior(9-12). Cadette usually includes 7th and 8th grade but can extend to include 6th graders in the case of middle schools that include 6th grade. And it can go up to 9th grade if needed and start Seniors at 10th. In our area Seniors tend to be High School 9,10,11,12 but I know of at least one 9th grader that stayed an additional year in Cadettes. Having these level assures that only 15-18 years old girls may do a Gold Award (Eagle equivalent). 14 year olds may start to work on the prereqs though. One of the problems with these levels, of course, is that the troops tend to be small. We don't include 10 - 18 year olds together. We have graduated leadership expectations, as well as increasing camping, skills, and community service expectations. There are obviously good things to be said about both the USGSA and BSA set up.

[NWScouter]

When leader says that the youth want to do it, especially in Cub/Webelos program but we cant because the rules ban it, it usually means they the leader want to do it and the Webelos wouldn't me. I honestly believe Webelos Outdoor Leader Training is offer because of the two types of Webelos Leaders. The first that have very little idea how to do the outdoor skills and the other is the ones that need to be reminded that the Webelos arent little versions of Edmund Hillary. High adventure is different for each age level. The G2SS tries to fit the average abilities of the age to activities allowed. It does change, and you need to check . I didnt and questioned Scouting Magazine (http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/archives/0103/d-lett.htm) about a picture of Webelos canoeing on their cover. When my son was a Webelos they couldnt do it period.

Fotoscout have you taken Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat training? You have to take every two years or you cant get a tour permit for any water activity. One time I took it the trainer mentioned that since they established the water safety rules in the 20s there has never be a life lost in Scout water activities when the rules were followed.

Out here (in public not scouting) we have our annual batch of drowning deaths and most of them come in flat water and when people go beyond their abilities. So when you state that it is flat water what could happen? it worries me.

The G2SS reminds me of what my pastor said when I was in confirmation. the Ten Commandments say thou shalt not. Look not at what it bans but realize how much you may do . There are plenty of activities that you boys will think are high adventure.

 

[Eamonn]

Sir Edmund Hillary. Please.

He earned it.