1st Class / First Year follow-up

[evmori]

Bob,

Yes Pittsburgh is a very popoulated area. There are also many Scout Troops in my area that draw from the same schools. There are only a few Troops that are large (30+). Most are around the size of mine.

 

But, since you seem to know everything about my Troop, city & program I run, I must be a bad leader since I don't follow the optional programs the BSA offers.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Ed,

If you are a bad leader (as you profess) it is only because you have proven tools at your disposal that you refuse to use. It seems you would rather lose scouts and not see the program grow than use all the resources available in order to improve.

 

There is a reason why some troops have 30+ and grow over ten years and some don't go beyond 10 or 12 scouts in the same period of time.

 

You have been given the resources to grow. The program works. The more you use the better it works. One thing about leadership, you can always improve, all it takes is a willingness to grow.

 

Best of luck,

Bob White

[evmori]

Bob,

I don't think I'm a bad leader. Just being sarcastic. My Dc & DE think my unit is functioning just fine. One of the reasons we are a small Troop is for many years we didn't have a feeder pack & we are not affiliated with a school. When we got a pack up & running we grew to around 20 Scouts. Now the pack is in a flux & we are not getting as many new Scouts. In a five mile radius of my Troop there are 6 other Troops. Mine and two others draw from the same schools. So just because we are located in a large metropolitan area doesn't mean we are the only game in town.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ASM7]

With all the talk about thr FCFY program, is there any written guidelines for it. I'm referring to a week to week lesson plan type doc. I was told that the old woods wisdom had something like that but it's not produced anymore. We have tried to do the program by instituting our own format, but it just seems with all the emphasis, that there would be a tried and true lesson to work off of. If it exists, I haven't found it yet. Maybe someone has produced it and made it available on their website. For my woodbadge ticket, I put together a weekly lesson, that lasts about ten minutes, that covers most of the TF to FC skills and knowledge. It is meant refresh skills and not to be the initial teaching. This lesson is presented by the SPL and the scouts are involved in reading sections from the Handbook. It has things like Knot of the Week, First Aid tip of the Week, Map and Compass Tip of the Week, Scout Skill of the Week. It even has a place for Scouts to tell their Good Deed of the Week, and there is also a Quote of the Week. Scouts try to guess who said the quote. There are twenty weeks of lessons and that gets us up to the time for Spring Camporee where they demonstrate their skills and knowledge. But if anybody has some guidelines, I'm sure others would like to know about it. Thanks

 

[Bob White]

The BSA leaves the agenda to each unit to do what works best for them. However there are a number of resources to help you plan your year's program. The Boy Scout Handbook, The Troop Program Features volumes 1-3, first class teracking Sheet, Troop Program resources, and of course input from the scouts themselves.

I'll share the proces I have used as the ASM for New Scout Patrols, maybe it will help.

 

I always start by having the Troop Guides sit down with the new scouts. They explain the advancement process and review the topics that lead to First Class. Then they talk to the scouts about what they would like to learn about first. We always work that into the agenda that the troop Guides and I prepare together. Troop meetings during the first 3 to 4 months consist of teaching how to prepare for camping mixed with skills needed to use at camp. Campouts are where we observe the skills in use and determine if each scout uses the skill correctly or if we need to do more instruction. We also use the time in the outdoors to teach the nature skills and improve camping skills.

 

Summer camp is fun time, we encourage the boys to go have fun. We introduce the merit badge program at this point and encourage the scouts to pick some topics they are interested in and go to the merit badge classes, but the thing we are looking for the most is coming home having had a fun time. They alsways come home with merit badges and most if not all complete all the swimmming requirements through First Class.

 

By this time of the year we are ready to get into map and compass and finish up first aid. Then it is a matter of recycling instruction where needed, teaching them how to teach a skill to others (this is how we get any scouts who are having difficulty get more practice) and we work on Patrol operation and administration. The Troop Guides are beginning to back out and by December everyone should be First Class, and they will elect their first 6-month patrol leader.

 

Hope this brief explanaition helps.

 

Bob White

 

 

[ASM7]

Thanks Bob White

I also picked up the "My Scout Advancement Trail, Tenderfoot to First Class" today. It lists every subject and the requirements under them. This I think will be a good source for planning with the troop guide. An idea came up last night at the committee meeting. We have a good group of older boys and are looking at about the same number of new scouts when it comes time for cross-over. One of the leaders had the idea of, even though the new scouts are in a patrol together, hook up an older scout with a new one. We beleive the older scouts will enjoy the challenge, create maybe some competition being careful not hurt any feelings, and will help insure attendance from the older and younger scout. Both would know the other would be counting on them to be there. I think it will also bridge the gap a little between them. All the older scouts will improve their teaching skills. Well, it's only for 3-6 months anyway. Has anyone tried this? Let me know how it worked out.

[ScoutPro]

Bob, youre not correct in assuming that FCFY is easy nor is it the only method. I work with lots of units in our council and several others and Im the SM in one and have been doing this for 30 years. Nice that you have FCFY working, but this year its 40-50% for me, I provide the means for it and Ive tried things as you suggested sometimes its just the kids.

 

You missed the point in not being able to hike in the patrol. Its because, if your not a certain rank, you do not have the skills (or proven the skills) to hike alone with a patrol which is guided by a youth (COPE would be another example where it's not allowed, OA being another). Its more of a safety reason. As far as eating first, we cook in patrols but for the Cooking Merit Badge you need to cook for your troop, so when we cook for the troop, youre called to the food line by rank. When we travel, we often stop at McDonalds, again rank has its privileges so they go first learned that one from Uncle Sam in Vietnam.

 

You missed the point on kids crying and not wanting to go camping, so I cannot even address that with you.

 

Anyway, this year Im at half, last year I had all crossovers to FC so I had 100%. Same program, same activities, nothing new. Its not a reflection of a poorly run unit. Matter of fact, I can show you many units that have a high FCFY program that are poorly run. Those units just pencil whip the kids through the program, next time youre in my counsel (as you make your visits) stop by my office and well chat. If you got some time Ill show you around some of my units and maybe we can both brainstorm the solution.

 

 

[KoreaScouter]

We apply a FC emphasis, but without the individual tracking sheets. We use the large, plastic laminated, BSA graphic chart that lets you "X" off all requirements through Eagle palms. It's on the wall in our Scout hut, it's kept up to date, and everybody can see the "X's" marching across from left to right. Moreover, we follow the Troop Program Resources pretty closely, and the built-in troop meeting plans steer you toward activities designed to fit new/experienced/older Scouts. I think if your PLC focuses on the right monthly themes at their program planning conference, the adults support the plan properly, and the Scouts execute it, you can't help but provide redundant opportunities for all your new Scouts to earn FC in their first year.

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, we tried an NSP earlier in the year, but it didn't have the results we hoped for due to a less-than-dedicated Troop Guide and active-duty ASMs who couldn't devote themselves exclusively to the NSP. Also, our demographics didn't exactly match the handbook example of all 11-year old boys from the same feeder pack. Our new Scouts ranged in age from 10 1/2 to 13, and most didn't know each other before joining -- of 6 Scouts who graduated from our feeder pack, four moved away within a month (military overseas). So, we struggled with it more than some of you with different human factors. After summer camp, when they had most FC requirements complete anyway, we moved them to their permanent patrols. It seems to be working better, with the PLs and APLs assuming responsibility for tying up their advancement loose ends.

 

Having said that, I'm not ruling out trying the NSP again to complement our FC emphasis. I did learn a couple things though, and will make sure we don't make the same mistakes...

 

Hey, Bob and Ed, will you guys kiss and make up, for goodness sakes?

 

KS

[Bob White]

ScoutPro,

I honestly don't know where to start.

1)I'm not a big fan of measuring leadership ability by how long you have done it. I've seen leaders be in scouting for 3 years and do a great job. I've seen others go decades with no visible skill at all. So tenure means nothing, I have to evalute on performance and results. I know from my experience that the program works, and it has been my experience that it works 90% of the time or better.

 

2)If Scouts are attending they should reach First Class near the first 12 months. If the 50% that aren't making it have been showing up then it falls to the training axiom "if the learner hasn't learned then the teacher hasn't taught". The fault lays with the teaching method not the scouts.

 

If the problem is 50% attendance for the year then the problem lies with the troop program, if it isn't fun they aren't gonna come.

 

Up to this point I'm not judging your specific unit, I giving my accessment of the success of the program based on my experiences.

 

Now I'm judging your program!

 

3)if your not a certain rank, you do not have the skills (or proven the skills) to hike alone with a patrol which is guided by a youth

Give me a break, hiking is just walking. You mean that a boy who is 10 1/2 or older lacks the skill to walk? In addition the Scoutmasters job is to train junior leaders, if the junior leaders cannot lead 6 or seven people on a walk then the SM isn't doing much training. When you were 11 you never went walking with other kids without adult supervision? You're not dangling a carrot, your sucking the fun out of their program until they show you what you want to see.

 

(Cope is a bad example its not a hike! OA is a bad example as well. It has nothing to do with being able to walk with your patrol)

 

While on a hike they could have learned or been tested on any of the following

Tenderfoot-5,7,8,9,11,12b,13

Second Class 1a,1b,2e,4,5,6b,7a,10

First Class 1,2,4a,4c,4d,6,7a,8a,8c,8d,9a,11

You want to know why you might have 50% not advancing? How many were made to ride in the car?

 

3) What merit badge book are you using?

There is no requirement in the cooking merit badge that says a scout must cook for the entire troop. In fact the largest group he must cook for is himself and two other boys. And I never knew that Uncle Sam at at McDonalds in Viet Nam.

I have great respect for people who served in the armed forces but we learned a lot of important lessons in Viet Nam, I hope one was that jungle tactics have no place in the Boy Scouts of America.

 

4)"Ive had kids show up for an outing crying, kicking, and screaming they didnt want to go" I have never had, seen of, or heard of, a boy scout crying, kicking and screaming not to go to camp before. And you say it has happened more that once. So yes, I have missed the point and to be perfectly blunt so have you. If you have scouts displaying this behaviour something is terribly wrong in your activities.

 

5)I don't know what you mean by pencil whipping in Tenderfoot to First Class Advancement. I always understood pencil whipping as a teacher trying to imprint information through a barrage of written homework and written tests. Where in FCFY is that even possible?

 

6)Thanks for the offer to visit sometime, but since you have never put any information in your profile I have no idea where your are. On second thought I'm quite sure I don't want to see the scouting you have described.

 

By the way the solution is to deliver the program as it is written in the Boy Scout handbook and taught in Scout Leader training.

 

Regards,

Bob White

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

ScoutPro,

Excellent post!

 

My feelings are that the 1st Class Emphasis is a program offered by the BSA. It is one of many programs each unit can choose to utilize. It is not required. I choose not to use this program in my unit so in Bob's eyes, I am a bad leader. If that is true, I guess any leader who doesn't use all the BSA programs is a bad leader in Bob's eyes.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

[Bob White]

1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10

Hi Ed, hi Scoutpro,

Let's try a different way to look at things. Let's not talk about about good leaders or bad leaders, policy or program options. Let's talk about boys. The main purpose of this board I would hope is to help each other have more successful scouting programs for the youth we serve.

 

I would hope you agree that the more youth who participate in scouting the better for the community. I live in a rural community (one of the largest corn producing areas in the country), my son's troop has no "feeder" pack. The parental make-up is widely varied. There are about 38 troops in our district. The vast majority are in the town we live in where my son's troop meets. Only a couple of the troops are sponsored by the school district. My sons troop has 39 boys and growing (and there are other this size). In the last two years I know of no scout who left this troop before the age of 18. We have 14 in 2 New Scout Patrols, 0% drop-off and we will again have 100% reach First Class in their first year. We go to summer camp, we go to high adventure camp. We camp nearly every month in the year. We meet the the requirements for Quality Unit Award. We have about 12 trained and registered committee members and 4 assistant scoutmasters. We never do entire Merit Badges as a troop and yet we have Scouts earning Merit badges and advancing to upper ranks constantly.

 

Isn't this not a good thing?

 

If your unit wasn't growing to serve more youth, if 50% left in the first year on a regular basis, if your scouts didn't stay till they were 18, wouldn't you want to know how to improve for the sake of the boys?

 

I would hope you would want to do whatever you could to get and keep more boys in scouting. All I'm offering is a way to do that. It's not MY WAY of doing things, its the scouting way of doing things. I'm not saying change the way scouting works, I am saying "if you change your ways-scouting works". The methods that will allow you to serve more boys and keep them longer is explained in the methods of the scout handbook and other scouting resources.

 

What possible reason is there for not employing all the given tools, if there is even a chance that it might make for better scouting for the boys you serve?

 

Why would you want to accept 50% success in anything, when there are methods available to you to achieve 80% 90% or even 100%?

 

Bob White

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Bob White]

Oops! Make that isn't this a good thing?

[evmori]

Korea,

I'll make up but I ain't kissin' him!

 

Bob,

I think we need to agree we disagree. What do you think?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

P.S. I am leaving for the beach with my family tonight so I won't be on for a week!

[OldGreyEagle]

Just as a capsule, so I am sure I understand.

 

FCFY means the troop assures first year students have the opportunity to become first class during their first year as scouts.

 

Implied is the troops program contains activities that the scouts will find fun. Then again, all of the troops program should be activities all the scouts will find fun.

 

Is this the concept? What have I missed?

[Bob White]

Exactly OGE,

It is program plan with a purpose. It's not a program where you stand behind the scouts and push them to First Class. It is a plan where you lay a trail in front of them and they follow it to First Class. If you lay the trail clearly they will all arrive at First Class in a year.

 

The trick is to stay ahead of them. Know what they need next and give them the opportunities to learn, then apply the skill, and then learn more. Teaching the skill is only 1/3 of the job. Creating the application opportunities is equally important. Being prepared at all times to catch them using the skill correctly and signing the advancement is the final portion.

 

Bob