1st Class / First Year follow-up

[mk9750]

If I might be permitted to add a comment about one of the sub topics here, namely whether to create a new patrol for new memebers, or to absorb them into existing patrols:

We have done it both ways, and both ways have met with varying levels of success. When a large enough group of new cross overs also have interested, committed parent(s) to assume an Assistant Scoutmaster role with the new patrol, AND if a quality young man, both mature enough to handle the responsiblity but young enough to relate to the new guys, can be identified, a new patrol is a terrific way to go.

If, on the other hand, the group is too small, or leadership from within the parents of the new scouts can't be identified (be carefull to make sure those who show commitment share your Troop's vision of itself. We often have encountered well meaning parents who don't understand the fundamental differences between Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts!!), it may be better to place them with a strong existing patrol.

Doing so however, does require some finesse. Often, the exisitng patrol has a strong bond which is difficult for any new comer to break, especially if the "newbie" is younger than the existing members.

Also, there will probably be a significant difference in the advancement status of the two groups withing the newly ammended patrol. This can make planning patrol meetings, troop activities and troop events difficult, but certainly not impossible. That is when the value of a skillful Advancement Chairman can smooth the process. He or she can work with the PLC to make sure activities planned cover all of the necesary advancement practice for all of the members of the patrol. To aid in this, our Troop utilizes a method similiar to medical schools; Do one, See one, Teach one. Older scouts are responsible for teaching new scouts a skill. The new scout practices at troop activites and interpatrol contests. He is sent home to practice the skill. He comes back and can be tested the next week (by the older scout(s) who did the instruction). As a final test, he must teach the skill to someone else. We use two sets of initials in a scout's handbook; one for the initial testing, and one for the teaching part.

We know this method works, as our boys are constantly held up as the example in our district when other units talk about scout skills.

Good luck to all. Regardless of your side in the debate above, everyone here certainly seems to have the best interest of your boys at heart.

[evmori]

Bob,

Statistics aren't the only thing that validates a program. The only reason I kept pushing was you seem to thing the FCFY program is the only way. I don't feel that way. And my unit has a very good retention. FCFY is a program offered by the BSA. A program like many other programs offered by the BSA. Units can choose to participate in the various programs or not participate. If a unit decides not to participate, they are not a poorly run unit. They just choose not to participate in an optional program.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Ed,

Where is this written as an optional program?

[evmori]

Bob,

Where is it written that FCFY is required? I can't find it. Actually, I can't find a specific reference to FCFY as a program in the Scoutmaster Handbook.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Ed,

You amaze me. The First Class Emphasis program is on page 119 of the Scoutmaster handbook, and in the opening pages of the Boy Scout Handbook, and in Scoutmaster/Asst. Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training. It is also a key goal of the New Scout Patrol element of the patrol method, which is described in the Boy Scout Handbook, The Scoutmaster Handbook, the Patrol Leaders, and the Senior Patrol Leaders Handbooks, as well as in Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training.

 

There is a tracking sheet to administrate it, a special certificate to recognize scouts who achieve it, and a leadership position specifide to supervise it. It has been a part of the program for over a dozen years.

 

Ed, there was once a man who found himself in the middle of a great flood. The police came down his street and told him he needed to leave, but the man said "God will save me". The National Guard came in a boat when his house was flooding and asked him to get in the boat to be taken to safety, but the man felt he was a good and religious man and said "No, God will save me". The depth of the water forced him to the roof where a News helicopter hovered and offered him a ride to dry land, but the man was so sure that he was doing right and waiting to be saved refused the ride and the helicopter flew away. Within a short time the water overtook the house and the man was swept away in the current. As he was breathing his last breath he looked to the sky and asked, "Why God, did you ignore me, I've always tried to do what was right, why didn't you save me?"!...The storm clouds parted and a voice from heaven said..."I sent a squad car, a boat and a helicopter, what the heck were you waiting for?"

 

Ed, Scouting has given you manuals, training and other resources all supporting the New Scout Patrol and First Class Emphasis. What the heck are you waiting for?!

[evmori]

Bob,

I know the page number. I still can't find the word required associated with the First Class Emphasis. You must have a different Scoutmaster Handbook than I do. I can't find anything under New Scout Patrol (You know the page number) that says First Class Emphasis is a key goal. There is a statement that refers to some Troops integrating new Scouts into reqular patrols after 3 to 6 months, though.

 

Tracking sheets are not used to administer programs. Tracking sheets are used to do exactly what they say - track individual progress. And just because a program has a tracking sheet doesn't mean it is required. If that were the case, all units would be required to participate in the popcorn sale. My unit does because it helps the Scouts earn money for summer camp as well as the council.

 

Special certificates are great, too but they don't make a program required either.

 

I hope your little story about the flood was a tongue-in-cheek story. If not, I find it offensive.

 

Back to my original question, where does it say it FCFY is required? I consider it optional. Also, since I only have 2 new Scouts, I am not one of the many Troops who have a New Scout Patrol.

 

If you are going to quote requirements I suggest you make sure they are requirements.

 

And yes Bob, I have the manuals. I have attended training. I have been on my district training staff. I'm not waiting for anything. Maybe you should get your head out of the books & get into the field where the boys are & find out if every program the BSA has is used by every unit. I'll bet you find units use the programs that best suit their units. So, what are you waiting for!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Troop meetings are every Monday from 7 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Ed. Visitors are always welcome. I'm the assistant scoutmaster for the New Scout Patrols and have been for years, I was also a Scoutmaster for several years and a Cubmaster for a few years as well. So I not only know the program but I use it on a weekly basis.

 

So much for the "he only knows the program but doesn't use it in real life" theory.

 

As I posted to you before Ed, I do not expect you to change. My concern is for the other posters who are new to the program or are trying to do a better job. They need to hear that the Scouting program they read in their resources and learn about in training, works. There is no need to do it someone elses way, when they can do it "the scouting way".

[evmori]

Bob,

Thanks for the invitation, but my Troop meeting are the same night so I won't be able to attend yours. If I am ver in the midwest & figure out where you are located, I will stop in, though.

 

Onec again you put words in my mouth. When did I ever say I don't do things the Scouting way? Or did you come to this conclusion on your own because I choose not to use some of the optional programs the BSA offers? Does my Troop use the Patrol method? Yes. Is my Troop "boy run?" Yes. Do I as a leader keep up on the changes to BSA policy & procedures? Yes. Are the Scouts the reason I am here? Yes. Do I interpret everything that is in the BSA manuals as gospel? No. There are many things that are suggestions & ideas that are there as resources. Do I follow the BSA rules & regs? Yes.

 

Now, back to my question you keep on side stepping - Where does it say the First Class Emphasis is a required BSA program?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[k9gold-scout]

Yes, 1st class in one year can work. Has it worked for every scout, no. However, I do think that there are more younger Eagle Scouts now than in the past. Just how many of them will continue either in a troop or in a venture crew, only time will tell. Personally I like the Ranger progran and I think there are many new skills that Eagle Scout can aquire to become even better outdoorsmen.

[dan]

I have not seen the FCFY tracking sheet so I got the form number out of the scoutmaster handbook, give it to my wife asked her if she could pick it up from the council office, they did not have it and they said no one had every asked for it before. The finally found one with a date of 1995 on it.

ARRGGHHH!

[Bob White]

dan,

Remember, you have resources other than the SM handbook! You can find the most recent version of the First Class Tracking sheet in the Troop Program resources manual. It will be at least a 1998 printing which means you will need to edit out the the First Class swimming requirement that is no longer used.

There are also versions available on the Internet.

 

Best of luck,

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[dan]

Thanks I will pick up that manual.

I have looked on the web for this and could not find it. If someone knows where it is please share with me.

 

[Bob White]

It should be available at your local scout service center or on-line at www.scoutstuff.org it is publication #WW33588 and costs $7.95.

 

Bob White

 

[evmori]

Bob,

Yes I do mean to beat a dead horse by asking this. I'm a lot like Ted Koppel when someone doesn't answer a question. Where does it state the First Class Emphasis is a required BSA Program?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ASM7]

We set up a program for the scouts to achieve First Class in the first year, but it is not a requirement. Our troop beleives that we should be event driven and not time driven. In other words it is more important to us that the scouts learn from and carry out projects and requirements, no matter how long it takes. We also use reflection to troubleshoot just about everything. The scoutmaster handbook states "a scout has a better than average chance of eventually becoming Eagle if he advances to FC by the first year." But even if he takes longer, he has still earned it and has mastered the basic scouting skills and should not receive less credit. The Handbook also states " boys should not be pressured to advance or given deadlines for completing various badges. The speed with which he completes requirements, and even to advance at all, lies with each boy." SM Handbook pg 119. Let's not mistake tools for requirements.

As for all of this bickering, all of us are just trying to the best job that we can and it is not up to one of us to judge the other. If we keep our personal feelings towards another's views out of this board, we all can be more productive. The Scout Law doesn't just apply to the scouts. Thanks