Palms

[OldGreyEagle]

Yes brad I concur, One palm for every three months the scout is active after becoming Eagle. Having 5 merit badges past the Eagle requierd 21 is ONE of the requirements for the palm. This is akin to Eagle. There is a lot more to Eagle than the correct combination of 21 merit badges.

 

There is more to a palm than 5 merit badges

[yarrow]

But it seems that at the end of 3 months and after the boy has earned his Eagle that he would be awarded palms for the numberof badges above Eagle required. Many kid have LOTS of badges and surely if they get their Eagle at say 17+ they would still be able to get all of the palms for all of the badges above Eagle that they have earned in one COH regardless of whether is is 5 or 45 worth. Am I right?

[andrews]

I wish you were, because me sons could have a lot more when they hit Eagle, since they will be well over the Eagle badges, but the requirements specify 3 months per palm, not 3 months for the next batch.

 

If you could get any number 3 months after eagle, every 3 months after that you should be able to get another batch, and that is not what is written.

 

Some website I saw a while back had a calculation of the most palms a Scout could get, and that included a comment about needing to turn Eagle at a certain point (12 or 14 I recall) to "max out" on palms.

 

Brad

[k9gold-scout]

Yes, I was wrong in my previous post, the rule is 3 months per palm. I will announce this at our next rountable ; but in our council many scoutmasters only have a troop board os review every 5 or 6 months and they have been putting in palm applications for back to back silver for their older Eagle Scouts. Our council office is swamped with Eagle applications (almost 200 per year)and the regular office person responsible is on workers comp. If the scoutmaster puts in the application and the council approves it I will not be the palm police.

 

[Bob White]

A little scout trivia. If I remember the calculations correctly, a scout would need to be Eagle by his 13th year and 3rd month in order to earn the maximum number of Palms (4-silver, 1-gold, 1-bronze). That would leave 3 merit badges (currently) for which he would not recive a palm (not a cluster of 5) however he could still earn all the badges. It has happened.

[yarrow]

That explains my friends push to have her boy earn Eagle at 13+ a little. I know he will earn the list. Hmmm doesn't seem quite right. Seems a boy should be able to receive palms for the badges based on what they have at Eagle. Otherwise that late (17 year old) Eagle kinda loses out. This also might push back the Eagle age.

[yarrow]

I found the site i which you were refering...............

 

 

 

What is the maximum number of possible Eagle Palms?

Here's a fun exercise.

Background information. There are a total of 119 merit badges currently offered by BSA. Each Eagle Palm requires five merit badges, three months active time, Scout Spirit requirement, a Scoutmaster conference, and successful completion of a BOR. Eagle Palms may be earned once a scout successfully completes his Eagle Board of Review.

Merit badges earned any time since becoming a boy scout may be used to meet this [Eagle Palms] requirement. (Boy Scout Requirements book; Eagle Palms requirements). There is no rule for how the applicant chooses which badges he selects for each palm; they do not have to be sequential (completion dates), but they must not be repeated.

To tally the Palms: First, count 21 merit badges required for Eagle Rank. Add five merit badges for the first (Bronze) palm (26 merit badges), five more for next (Gold) palm (31 merit badges), five more for first Silver Palm (36 merit badges). The palm sequence begins again so add five more merit badges for the second Bronze Palm (41 merit badges), 5 more for the second Gold Palm (46 merit badges), and five more for the second Silver Palm (51 merit badges). Repeat the sequence until you count out the maximum number of palms tallied from all merit badges which are offered in the Boy Scout program. If the current number of 119 is in place, this tally would be the award of Six Silver Palms, Six Gold Palms, and Seven Bronze palms for the total of 19 earned Eagle Palms.

How Palms are represented for wear on the uniform: "You may wear only the proper combination of palms for the number of merit badges you earned beyond the rank of Eagle. The Bronze represents five merit badges, the Gold 10 badges and the Silver 15 badges." This information is given in the Boy Scout handbook and the Boy Scout Requirements book (2000). For our Maximum Possible Palms example, you would place six Silver Palms and one Bronze Palm on the Eagle Medal to represent 96 merit badges earned (the Eagle Medal adds an additional 21 merit badges for the Eagle Award), this combination also represents 19 Eagle palms. There are three merit badges are left over which are not enough for a palm.

Time requirements: Okay, even if you earned all 119 merit badges, there is still the time requirement. For 19 palms, the absolute minimum of 57 months (4 yrs. 9 months) is required. Palms may be earned until a scout reaches 18, thus a scout must earn his Eagle rank while no older than 13 yrs. 3 months less 1 day to achieve this highest possible number of palms. All other conditions to play out this scenario have to be perfect (i.e. Scoutmaster conference and BOR both right on the 3-month anniversary day as well as the the active time and scout spirit requirements, and of course earn the merit badges.)

This is a fun problem, not one which involves opinion on age for attaining the Eagle rank, so let's not go there. It also does not take into account the reality of scheduling Scoutmaster Conferences nor BOR's which usually will not be exactly on the anniversary date of the previous palm.

Math

119 merit badges - 21 needed for Eagle = 98 merit badges left for palms tally.

98 divided by 5 merit badges per palm = 19 palms plus 3 merit badges left over.

19 palms divided by 3 types palms = 6 per each type plus one left over for, making it Six Silver, 6 Gold, and 7 Bronze. 19 palms x 3 month requirement for each = 57 months, or 4 years 9 months.

18 yr. (less one day) - 4 yrs. 9 months = 13 yrs., 3 months less 1 day.

How Eagle Palms are worn: Eagle Palms are worn on the Eagle Medal. (The Eagle Medal represents 21 badges.) The Bronze Palm represents one palm (5 badges). The Gold Palm represents two palms (10 badges), so you remove the Bronze one and replace it with the Gold. Silver represents three palms (15 badges), so you remove the Gold Palm and replace it with the Silver Palm. As each additional palm is earned, leave the Silver Palm in place and repeat the above sequence. This means that when Silver palms are already pinned on the medal, the Bronze Palm adds one to that already represented by each Silver Palm, and a Gold Palm adds two.

For the case of our 19 palms (representing 95 merit badges, setting aside the 21 represented by the Eagle Medal), you would do the math and figure 19 palms divided by 3 which equals 6 silver palms with one palm left over (one palm = bronze), so you would pin on six Silver Palms (representing 18 eagle palms) and a Bronze Palm (that's the extra 1 palm) to the Eagle Medal.

Now think about this one: a Bronze Palm and Gold Palm would never be worn together at the same time since 1 (Bronze) + 2 (Gold) equals 3, and three palms is represented by a Silver palm.

One additional note for the tally: We counted 116 merit badges (including the 21 for the Eagle award), and had three badges left over. If an additional two merit badges were introduced by BSA above the current 119 merit badges offered, and these two additional badges were earned for 121, it is possible that these five merit badges can be used for yet another palm. That additional palm is represented by a Gold palm worn with the six Silver Palms.

What has been accomplished in "real life?" Does anyone know what the record is and who it was who earned the highest number of palms? I think I remember seeing something in the Reader's Digest sometime in the late 80's, or maybe early 90's.

 

 

Submitted by Rosemary L. McCammond, Croatan Trails District

[Bob White]

Mia Culpa,

To to upgrade the abacus to version 3.1

 

Bob

[k9gold-scout]

I don't think national keeps that information, but there have been several newspaper articles about scouts earning every merit badge. Several years ago I meet an Eagle Scout in our council who had earned every merit badge. He told me that when he had more than 80 badges scouters started calling him to ask if he would like to earn the badge they offered. He said the hardest one for him was the last one he earned - waterskiing which he finished on his 18th birthday!

[yarrow]

Here's one.........wonder when we had so many merit badges................

 

MOST MERIT BADGES

 

FYI...

Eagle Scout John Stanford from Limestone NY earned the most merit badges ever . total was 142 and he had a total of 8 silver palms by his 18th b-day .you can e-mail him at Eagle1@johnandjamie.com

 

 

 

[andrews]

Yarrow,

 

Otherwise that late (17 year old) Eagle kinda loses out

 

You could say the same thing for 17 year old Life, or even Tenderfoot for that matter. The time requirements are there for a reason. Someone who starts later, or even just completes a stage later, will not get the same rewards, in general, as someone who starts earlier.

 

Brad

[ewww_tbone]

I'm not positive on this subject but in the Boy Scout Handbook (I'm not looking at it right now) it says something to the effect of "a scout may continue earning palms past his silver palm in that order." This means that the scout must earn an eagle number of silvers to bronzes or more bronzes. Ex: 6 Silvers and 6 Bronzes or 7 Bronzes and 6 Silvers. This would signify that he has started another set of palms and that he still has to get another gold to get another silver. My troop has never had a person with a palm but I talked to my scoutmasters as a few of my friends and I will all recieve at least one palm, and they seem to interpret the rule to be that you must wait 3 months for every palm and the Boy Scout Handbook says you must earn them in the certain order which means that in order to get a Silver palm at your COH then you must delay it at least 9 months.

[Bob White]

ewww-tbone,

It works like this..

 

Eagle Board of Review date+3 months and 5-merit badges beyond 21+Palm BOR = Bronze Palm

 

Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= Gold Palm (put the bronze one in the drawer fo awhile)

 

Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= Silver Palm (put the Gold one in the drawer fo awhile)

 

Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= Silver Palm and Bronze Palm (the one from yopur drawer)

 

Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= Silver Palm and Gold Palm (the one from your drawer, put the bronze back in the drawer for awhile)

 

Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= 2 Silver Palms (put the gold one back in the drawer)

 

Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= 2 Silver Palms and a Bronze (the one from the drawer)

 

Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= 2 Silver Palms and a Gold (yes, the one from the drawer)

 

Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= 3 Silver Palms (Gold one goes you know where)

 

Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= 3 Silver Palms and you guessed it the Bronze palm from the drawer.

 

So you see you always earn them in order Bronze, Gold , Silver. But you never wear a Bronze and Gold together because they are always equal to a Silver.

Hope this helps.

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

[yarrow]

Andrews, my concern is for a system that may promote those ridiculously young and under experienced 13 year-old Eagles. For my part I would rather reward a 17 year old who has earned those badges and not have him be disappointed that he didn't opt to become a paper Eagle at 13 or 14.

 

edit, add :This isn't sour grapes, just my perspective, my boy is 12 1/2 and has a long way to go.(This message has been edited by yarrow)

[Rooster7]

NASA astronaut Joe Tanner was an Eagle at age 14. He carries his Eagle card around in his wallet. My guess is; he does not consider himself to be a paper Eagle. I don't think its right to say a boy is a paper Eagle because he received the rank at age 14, or even 13. It's not fair to the boy who did earn his badge.

 

Yet, your point is taken. I just wouldn't generalize.