Fire!!

[SMT224]

One of my overriding contentions with Scouting is that boys & girls like to play with fire and knives. Scouting gives kids a safe and constructive way to indulge in these activities. Scouts learn how to safely handle both fire and knives and learn life-long skills. I encourage Scouts to build, maintain, and put out fires according to Fire-m-Chit, and handle knives according to Tote-n-Chip. Of course they do get a burn or cut now and again. It's all part of the learning process. Respect and an understanding of the rules are the end points of the process.

 

However, I just had a call from a mom who is pulling her son out of the Troop because he has been setting fires in their backyard. She is afraid he will soon set their house on fire. She is furious, and believes we have encouraged this behavior.

 

And here I'm giving the Scouts a tinderbox kit (char cloth & metal box, a magnesium sparker, natural rope fibers, 0000 steel wool, 9-volt battery) for their Troop Christmas present!

 

Am I out of line?

[KC9DDI]

Nope, you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.

 

We sometimes joke about our Scouts being pyromaniacs, but pyromania can be a legitimate psychiatric problem that needs to be diagnosed and managed just like other mental illnesses. If this young man's condition is as serious as its made out to be here, maybe it needs to be treated medically/psychologically. Or maybe mom just needs to relax - hard to tell without knowing more about the situation.

 

Probably has nothing to do with Scouting, IMHO.

[Twocubdad]

Sounds like the boy is having a difficult time overcoming his upbringing.

[Beavah]

Yah, I love hangin' out in da forums, because every month or so I hear a new one!

 

That is definitely a new one.

 

I'd suggest to the mom that rather than pull him out of scouts, she tear up his fireman chit so that he has to earn a new one, then send him on the next campout where you and his Patrol leader will reinforce da lessons on fire safety that he missed. Scoutin' is a partnership, and she's done her part by lettin' yeh know, so that you can do your part in reinforcing the lesson.

 

I take it there's no dad in the picture?

 

Beavah

 

[shortridge]

Photocopy the relevant pages from the Handbook and Fieldbook, and give them to her. Explain that is what you've been teaching the Scouts - proper use, safety, control - not random backyard burns. Show her the requirements for the Fire Safety MB, and discuss how the focus is all about learning how to be safe around a dangerous thing. Would she rather he not know how to put out a grease fire or fight a leaf blaze?

 

Then, if she agrees that you haven't been encouraging him to set his yard afire and she'll keep him in Scouts, pull the boy aside for an impromptu SM conference and discuss it. Then keep a very close eye on him.

[Scoutfish]

OH CRAP! My son learned the alphabet and how to read and write ar school.

 

If he ends up writting a 300 page manifesto and reads books on how to build a bomb....should I blame the public schools, the board of education and anybody who blatantly and carelessly exposes my son to letters, numbers and such?

 

[Basementdweller]

Gifts.......

 

 

It appears that I am in the minority, but I would never give a scout a knife or means to make a fire as a gift. I know that boys will be boys and stuff happens. this is something that in my opinion is left between a parent and scout. They know their son better than we do.

 

It might have something to do with the age of the troop too......My son has a decent fire starting kit, he played with it initially on our patio, he made fires in the fire pit, burned himself, burned up $50 worth of steel wool and then stopped. He has not played with it since, same for the daughter.

 

There are a couple of boys that are fire bugs. I posted about it a couple of months ago here......

 

 

On a camp out I don't care if they take 4 hours to build a campfire, they can play all they want......had a young man use half my hot spark in a two hour period......surprised he didn't have blisters on his hands......

 

 

So what is an inappropriate gift for a SM to give a scout or Troop????

 

Edged tools and things with fire are on my list......

 

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

I agree with you Basement. These are things that are fine for parents to give boys, or to use when supervised. But I wouldn't give them as a gift.

 

At a minimum, I'd say you should get the express permission of the parents.

 

This is the kind of thing that would probably create a legal liability if misused, and might also undermine parental authority and household rules.

 

If you want to make fire making tools available for use on a Scout outing ----fine.

[BartHumphries]

Remind the kids, they are not to start any fires anywhere, even for practice, unless they have their parents permission. I think his mom was right to be upset with someone who first taught her son to start fires, then encouraged her son to "build, maintain, and put out fires".

 

It's kind of like the Totin' Chip. Just because they have a Totin' Chip card, they should *not* be taking their knife to school. There is no such thing as the "Take your knife to school day", it doesn't exist. Totin' Chip only applies within the Scout troop and other people may or may not respect it or pay any attention to it (they probably don't care whether a boy has it).

 

Just because a boy has his Firem'n Chit, doesn't mean he's allowed to start fires on his own outside of the Scout meetings -- he always needs his parents permission first. If he starts a fire at school, they will not care whether or not he has his Firem'n Chit just like they will not care whether he has his Totin' Chip. There is no "Take your lighter to school day".

 

I think you add in some Leave No Trace which suggests (in point 5) that you cannot build a fire unless you either build it on a proper fire mound or you build it in a pre-established fire pit (or something like that) and in all cases you must have the permission of the land manager (the ranger for a national park, the parents for the backyard, etc.) to build that fire. If that's driven home, then perhaps she won't have any further reasons to be upset.

[Twocubdad]

Oh for pete's sake.

 

Is the mother bed-ridden? Institutionalized somewhere?

 

When the child is at home it responsibility of the parent to control his behavior. This woman needs to do her dang job as a parent and quit trying to blame other people for her inability to parent her son.

 

He's learning to build fires at BOY SCOUTS for heavens sake. What's she going to do when he starts practicing behaviors he learns from watching TV, video games, or hanging out with his friends? Who will she call and blame them?

 

 

 

Sheeesh.

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally, I would compare giving a fire making kit to a minor with giving a bee bee gun or firearm to a minor.

[Eagle92]

Wow, one of my councils I was in is in trouble, they used the BSA fire sparks as Round Up items, and sell them at summer camp.

 

I think the previous comment is going overboard.

[shortridge]

Perhaps gifts knives, guns and firemaking kits (? I'd never heard of a formal "kit" before this thread) should best come from the parents.

 

But parents should realize when signing up that their kids are going to learn how to use these tools properly and safely.

 

They should also realize that it's their responsibility to provide supervision at home. The troop isn't responsible for that.

[BartHumphries]

I have no problem giving a youth a BB gun (with their parent's permission, of course) -- I had one. Granted, my dad had a 22 when he was young and once made his own blanks and shot them at school with his pistol while he and his classmates reenacted a Cowboys vs Indians thing for some class. Attitudes towards guns have changed over time.

 

I can easily see that some parents might feel that their child will shoot their eye out and thus shouldn't be given a gun. (Since it's Christmas and that story is likely more on people's minds at this time of year.)

[DeanRx]

I don't know about gifting a fire starting kit... I think I'd leave that determination up to the parent(s), much the same at pocket knifes or BB-guns (or other guns for that matter).

 

As for him being taught he skills, then he needs to re-learn the lesson.

 

As for the mom - she is responsible for her son on his own time. He might have LEARNED the techniques from scouting, but is obviously misusing them since he did not have a parent's permission, nor adult supervision.

 

This mom is going to FLIP once he gets to Jr. High and has health class... what if he starts USING his new knowledge to expiriment with / impregnant girls? After all, he learned it from the school, must be the schools' fault.

 

If she wants to pull him from scouts, there's little you can do about it - but its not your fault (assuming the firestarting class was taught properly with emphasis on permission & safety first!)

 

Dean