Hats On Hats Off

[Beavah]

When teenage boys sit down in a restaurant with their mother or grandmother, they should know the that the hat comes off.

 

Yah, things are slow, so this seemed as good a spinoff as any.

 

I'm always a big fan of real courtesy. Thanking people for a kindness, takin' your turn, goin' out of your way to be polite. And I think it's just fine to teach young folks social custom, so long as we don't get too uptight or parochial about it.

 

I always get a kick out of da folks who mix the two up, though, especially mixin' courtesy up with clothing. Yah, yah, no doubt that on certain rare occasions, clothing can be an expression of courtesy. Wearin' cut-off jeans and a tank top to a church wedding is probably a deliberate statement of disrespect.

 

Aside from that, though, I've always felt clothing was just clothing. Doesn't have much to do with courtesy, and tryin' to remember da local protocols is nuthin' short of amusing. In my state, if yeh don't show up in suit and tie for a meeting in da city, yeh might be considered discourteous. If yeh do show up in suit and tie in da country, yeh might be considered discourteous.

 

Don't wear a hat indoors. Unless Jewish, or Islamic, or a Catholic participatin' in an official function, or a Boy Scout, or a westerner (particularly if wearin' a cowboy hat), or a food service or other worker, or a person sufferin' hair loss from chemo, or under arms, or if you're royalty wearing official headgear, or if you're at a high school or university graduation, or... Good grief. The "hats" rule goes back to da days of chivalry in the west when people wore helmets, not hats.

 

Personally I always roll my eyes a bit at da folks from my generation who get their knickers in a twist over this sort of thing. Customs change over time. Da timeless rule should be "courtesy demands that yeh not act like a snooty old coot about other people's choice of clothing". Summer camp is my favorite. No matter what camp yeh visit, there always seems to be someone who thinks it's OK to holler at some poor lad for wearin' his hat into the mess hall. Honestly, I think da kids have it right. If you've been wearin' a hat all day, leave it on. Nobody wants to look at your skanky, sweaty, matted hair.

 

Now, a more interestin' question is whether it's impolite to wear shoes indoors. :)

 

Beavah

 

[Stosh]

Why is this discussion limited to only teenaged boys? I see just as many if not more adults wearing hats in restaurants than kids.

 

Stosh

[Basementdweller]

folks wearing hats during the national anthem at sporting events.......and yes I asked them to remove them and I was told to mind my own business.

[Kudu]

33 official BSA photos & drawings of Boy Scout hats on inside:

 

http://inquiry.net/uniforms/hats/inside.htm

 

 

[BDPT00]

Beavah,

I totally disagree that clothing has nothing to do with courtesy.

Some kid (or less than intelligent adult) wears his pants at half mast, so that he can hardly walk, and always has to have a free hand to hold them up ... is he being courteous to anybody who has to look at him? I didn't intend for this to become a discussion telling us under what conditions people wear hats indoors. I'm talking about manners.

Let's assume you're eating at a nice restaurant (one where half of the crowd looks like they just came from church ... and by that I mean dressed up ... and let's assume we all know what that means), and you happen to be wearing a baseball cap. Would you actually do that? If so, what happens when I walk by with my mother, and I stop to introduce her to you? Do you sit there with you hat on and your mouth full when you say hello? If not, then maybe you know what manners are. Where and when did you learn them? Today's kids don't learn them anywhere because it appears that people just don't care anymore.

And no, I'm not going to ask if you're Jewish or under arms.

BDPT00

[IM_Kathy]

hats is always an interesting topic.

 

I wear a hat almost all the time. I think the only time the boys in the troop see me without a hat is in the dining hall of summer camp.

 

was always interesting when I coached little league because technially men/boys remove their hats for national anthem, but women do not. of course this goes wayyyyy back when women hats were pinned in and such. but with young boys they do not understand women can leave it on but they have to take it off - so I always took mine off as well.

 

thankfully with the BSA I wear official BSA hat and can leave it on. until I get to the dining hall

[Scoutfish]

"Wearin' cut-off jeans and a tank top to a church wedding is probably a deliberate statement of disrespect. "

 

You'd be surprised how many actually have no clue either way> "What's wrong with what UI am wearing, dude?"

 

But then again, they also wear flip flops to weddings and those holey jeans have worn off from dragging on the ground and have permanant dirt stains.

 

Myself, I take my hat off while eating, but I do not expect others do do it just because I do. And to be honest, I'm not even sure why I do. Honestly, I really don't wear hats that much.

 

I think when I do, I take them off while eating because I do sweat alot on my head. I keep a high and tight crew cut even in January because of this.

 

NOw, The way I always understood it was like this: While at attention at a flag, while in chuirch, or other somber occasions, you took your hat off unless it was part of a uniform. Scout hat stays on, police or fire hat (not helmet) stays on. John Deere cap comes off.

 

But, making a point of telling a stranger to take a hat off seems to be a bigger act of rudeness that just letting be.

 

I witnessed a man tell another older man to Take "His damned disrespecting hat off". during The National Anthem at the ball game our pack went to for a summer fun dayy.

 

Turns out the guy who was wearing the had had some serious damage on top of his head. Could have been a war wound, cancer, sun damage, liver spots or who knows what.

 

The man who made the comment ended up looking like a real ass.

[ChaiAdventure]

I don't know much about the etiquette of when to wear a hat, since I rarely wear hats (outside of when I am in uniform). What I do know is that taking your hat off during the national anthem is not a tradition, it is a federal law. Having said that, I will not say anything to an adult with a hat on, but to anyone who won't stand (that has the physical ability to), I will always make a comment (and after five combat deployments, I have earned that right).

 

We did have a situation with the boys wearing hats inside our CO (a church). While I know the rules allow scouts to wear hats inside, I believe it is entirely within the rights of the CO to enforce their custom. Easy decision...hats off in the church.

 

(This message has been edited by chaiadventure)

[KC9DDI]

What I do know is that taking your hat off during the national anthem is not a tradition, it is a federal law

 

Which federal law is that?

[Papadaddy]

Not sure that combat deployments give anyone a special right to be rude. They, of all people should appreciate the freedoms that this country affords us...including the freedom to wear a hat if I choose. Federal Law? I'm raising the BS flag on that one, too.

 

Beavah's comment about shoes jogged my memory. A friend of mine married a Japanese girl and the custom in his home is to remove your shoes at the door, and they have slippers you can wear if you desire. I asked him about the custom, and he said, "ya know that puddle under the urinal...we don't want that in our home". Made perfect sense to me. A recent etiquette column addressed the question, "is it ok to require guests to remove their shoes?", and the learned answer was, "yes, of course". I am of two minds...while I would like to comply with my host's wishes, I don't think most bare feet are very attractive, and my socks are not always the most pleasant, especially after a long day. And I don't like wearing other people's shoes or slippers, either. Never did much bowling because of that. It's just gross. So, what is more important, the host's wishes, or the guest's embarrassment?

[Stosh]

Taking one's hat off for the national anthem is not federal law. It is included in the US Flag Code as the recommended way to show respect for the flag, not the national anthem. People have the freedom to not show respect for the flag, they can even burn it to show such disrespect. However, there are no penalties in the Code for such actions.

 

Stosh

[Beavah]

Some kid (or less than intelligent adult) wears his pants at half mast, so that he can hardly walk, and always has to have a free hand to hold them up ... is he being courteous to anybody who has to look at him?

 

Oh, I don't know. He at least is providin' amusement.

 

An interestin' question becomes somethin' like "If the 'nice' restaurant doesn't have a dress code and is happy to serve some fellows in hats, why should you as a fellow guest care?" I would think a polite guest would honor the decision of his host or the rules of the establishment, rather than be rude to fellow guests. And a part of me feels in the gospel sense: if you have judged your fellow guests even without acting on it, you have committed rudeness in your heart.

 

Now I confess some of my work occasionally takes me to meetings at various clubs and such places, and I do stand to greet folks who come by to a table. Sometimes, though, I'll admit, that can get tedious. At such places it's quite common for me or those I'm with to have passing acquaintance with many fellow guests, and by about the 3rd or 4th time my meal is interrupted by standing for some drop-by well-wisher, I begin to wonder about the propriety of standing and greeting every such impromptu visitor. I know that personally when I drop in in such a way, I'm mindful of my timing, and I tell those I'm greeting to remain seated rather than expect them to discomfit themselves on my account. I reckon if I interrupt someone mid-bite, then it's my own dumb fault if they greet me with food in their mouth.

 

All things in balance, of course. I do tell the boys that "when in Rome" they should act like Romans, so when they're with a bunch of stodgy old coots, they should be mindful of those norms. Not because da norms make any sense, necessarily, but because sometimes it's good to be kind to stodgy old coots.

 

Now, in the stodgy old coot department, I reckon I feel like Papadaddy a bit on da shoes thing. As a guest in a culturally American home, the taking-off-shoes thing feels to me like the host is saying something between "you're too dirty to enter" and "my carpet is more important than you".

 

Beavah

 

 

[Papadaddy]

Did he just call me a stodgy old coot? LOL...ok, I admit it.

[ChaiAdventure]

US Code: title 36, Chapter 10

 

Might want remove your hat when you lower your BS flag

[KC9DDI]

I'm having a difficult time locating Chapter 10 of Title 36 in the most recent US Code? (http://uscode.house.gov/download/title_10.shtml)