When would you not let your scout go?

[Tampa Turtle]

This is directed toward you a parent. When would you not let your boy go to scouts?

 

My sons had not done their homework before the meeting and were told by SWMBO they could not go. A flurry of last hour work meant they squeaked under the wire. I would have gone anyway because I had a MB to talk about.

 

I am always a bit conflicted as Scouting is one of the only positive influence for him...but he has been bounced before for bad behavior. It is my boys #1 activity outside homework and church.

 

I was just wondering what other parents do.

[IM_Kathy]

my son is a sophmore so that may make some difference. when he has scouts, speech, or debate (the later 2 are school activities he's in) he is allowed to stay up until homework is finished. same goes for a normal day for that matter, but normally isn't needed those days.

 

I don't recall the last time he was grounded, but I would not ground him from a troop meeting, but depending on what he did I might for a campout. But our best punishment has always been "no screens" unless needed for school - that means no cellphones, ipods, video games, tv, computer... anything with a screen!!!

 

as a committee member and someone that works with the T-2-1 boys as well as having several boys working on MB's with me I will attend if my son is unable to attend which is mostly due to a conflict with debate schedule.

[T2Eagle]

Generally, I consider scouts to be part of their education as opposed to recreation. It's not a reward for other good behavior rather it's an integral part of their growth and development. So I look at scout meetings as part of the evening's homework, and other activities are curtailed that night accordingly. If they don't have their other homework done before the meeting they have to finish when they get home, and if they have to stay up a little later to do that so be it. If they don't get done before it's too late then the same consequences apply to any other time when they have incomplete work at school -- homework room at school and if that becomes a pattern then loss of other priveleges at home.

 

That said, they've occasionally missed scouts when there were large projects with looming deadlines, and if their school work was really slipping, or they were becoming overwhelmed with volume, scouts would take a back seat.

[perdidochas]

I've kept my boys out of scouts if they have not done their homework.

[Engineer61]

Been There Doing This ...

 

As a hard-and-fast rule, anything that applies towards a grade in school outranks extracurricular activities 100% of the time for us. Makes no difference if it is Scouts, Baseball ... whatever.

 

When there is a conflict, that is how the decision is made. Anything that is for a grade beats everything that is not for a grade.

 

Scout has in fact missed camping trips because projects have been due on the Monday following. Non-Scout son has missed baseball games (even one tournament game) because homework was not completed.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yeh know, it's fun watchin' young Patrol Leaders. One of da first things young patrol leaders try as a leadership technique is ordering and punishment. With some experience or mentoring, they hopefully learn that such an approach is rarely successful in da long run.

 

As an older fellow, I often see young parents proceed along da same learning path as patrol leaders.

 

All things in balance, Tampa Turtle. Each kid and family is different, and yeh have to be creative and thoughtful about how to respond to each of your kid's needs. Sometimes, for a short-term issue, yeh do need to do the hard-nosed thing. That has its place, for some kids. It's not a viable long-term strategy, though.

 

Yeh want your son to love and enjoy school and learning, eh? I'm not really convinced yeh get that with da approach your wife has taken, in the long run. Yeh get temporary compliance, sure, for a little bit... until the lad gets old enough to discover rebellion. I once watched a very bright scout call his parents' bluff, and cold-quit every extracurricular including scouting just so that they wouldn't be able to use that stuff against him. Then what do yeh do? More often, I've seen teens in a constant battle with their parents, that sometimes harms their relationship for da rest of their lives. We don't want temporary, grudging compliance in our children. We want joy and achievement.

 

Boys of scouting age are influenced most by friends and peers, eh? Their long-term success and prospects are determined by that a lot more than they are determined by da homework assignment in 8th grade band. If there's one thing that destroys high school GPAs it's teen angst and depression. Any activity your kid connects with that gives him good mentors and peers and some armor against that angsty stuff is a worthy long-term investment. And if there's anything that destroys a love of learning and achievement it's a constant focus on grades.

 

So put it this way: if your son didn't do his household chores but loved school, would yeh tell him he can't go to school unless his chores are done? If he were a faithful soul, would yeh keep him home from Sunday church service to complete his homework? Your son being involved in good, productive things is not somethin' that yeh want to take away.

 

Parent - to - parent, I think yeh need to work harder and think a bit more creatively. Yeh want long-term results for your son, not short term compliance. And in that fight, positive interest and reinforcement is the winner. Lots of folks can't manage it, because in their heart they care more about compliance than long-term outcome. In the end, they usually regret it, but there are no do-overs.

 

Go buy your wife this book. http://www.amazon.com/Full-Your-Bucket-Positive-Strategies/dp/1595620036

 

Beavah

 

[Tampa Turtle]

Beavah (and others)

 

Thank you for the advice.

 

I will look at the book. My older son is extra-difficult as he has a host of disabilities that defeat any logical reward/punishment system. He has Tourettes and the usual tag-along cluster and, at least to other parents, the next couple years are the some of the hardest --a number of folks basically sent their kids to live out of the house. I guess the hormones make it worse. Just think a terrible beginning teenager and amp it up many times. To his credit he can hold it together at school (a good thing since other Touretters have been tased at school)so when he gets home watch out! Can't hold together all the time.

 

It would be OK if he would go off and blow off steam away from the family. But he wants to hang around with us while being verbally and threatens to be physically abusive.

 

My solace is he has had to overcome so much to do so many things we take for granted if he puts his mind to something he is very, very stubborn. Very self directed. Which means if he thinks TV watching is more important than doing anything else there is nothing you can do to deter his opinion. If we cab direct him on the right path I think he can find his way. But the last year is hell.

 

Scouting is great as a parent as I have other "normal" smart-a$$ 13 year olds to compare with. I can't say he is a whiner he thinks heat-exhaustion or hypothermia is for the weak. (Obviously I have to keep an eye that he learns his limits).

 

But he has had the same goal since he was a little boy of 5: be in Special Forces. So we have been trying to get him to adapt without meds and home schooled and all that stuff. But we said #1 job is school; he has gotta do the work.

 

Parenting is HARD work! When it is good it is really good and bad it is the depths.

[SR540Beaver]

Believe it or not, my son was in a leadership role from about 6 months into Boy Scouts until he aged out as an Eagle at 18. I viewed Scouting the same way I viewed baseball when he was a player. You have made a committment to a team and you have an obligation to be there. I don't remember a single time he stayed home for homework on a troop meeting night or a weekend campout. But he was out of school usually by 3 or 3:30 and the Troop meeting wasn't until 7 PM. Plenty of time to do homework BEFORE the troop meeting. From grade school thru high school, he knew that homework was to be done as soon as he got home from school and before any other activities. Will some kids push back? Of course they will. We were lucky that was more of a rules follower than a fighter.

 

Now, all of that being said, if a kid isn't in a leadership role, I don't have that big of a problem with mom and dad keeping them home......other than it can start being abused or become a habit. If they are in a leadership role, they should be there unless they absolutely can't.

[Tampa Turtle]

Well SR540,

 

An interesting topic. We are in POR selection mode now and you need your parents approval to accept it. (If the folks aren't gonna drive 'em it probably not gonna happen)and I told him I wasn't gonna approve it.

[perdidochas]

 

 

I've never stopped my boys from going to scouts based on a single homework assignment. I have told them that if they don't do better on getting all of their homework done this week, I would not let them go to Scouts the next week. Had to do it once, and the homework problem disappeared. I would do the same if they are on a sports team.

[Eagle707]

When I was in high school, I carried a pretty heavy homework load (I was an IB student) and there were times that I had to skip meetings because of homework. However, it was always my call whether or not I went to the troop meetings. Sometimes I went to troop meetings when I had not completed my homework and then I would finish it when I came home.

 

Incidentally, I did not suffer academically: I graduated with a 3.88 GPA (and an IB Diploma) and earned my Eagle rank as a high school sophomore. I'm a fan of letting the Scout make the call (with parents intervening if necessary).

 

Also, as a bonus, why not use this as an opportunity to have them start on the Personal Management merit badge? I'm not one of those "badge for everything" people but, if they're having trouble with their schedules, why not have them:

 

"Demonstrate to your merit badge counselor your understanding of time management by doing the following:

 

8

a. Write a "to do" list of tasks or activities, such as homework assignments, chores, and personal projects, that must be done in the coming week. List these in order of importance to you.

b. Make a seven-day calendar or schedule. Put in your set activities, such as school classes, sports practices or games, jobs or chores, and/or Scout or church or club meetings, then plan when you will do all the tasks from your "to do" list between your set activities.

c. Follow the one-week schedule you planned. Keep a daily diary or journal during each of the seven days of this week's activities, writing down when you completed each of the tasks on your "to do" list compared to when you scheduled them.

d. Review your "to do" list, one-week schedule, and diary/journal to understand when your schedule worked and when it did not work. With your merit badge counselor, discuss and understand what you learned from this requirement and what you might do differently the next time. "

 

It would let them work on their merit badges (Scouting) while organizing their lives (non-Scouting) with the added bonus of not having the lesson come from mom or dad!

 

Edited: it's late where I am so I managed to miss Tampa Turtle's reply.

 

While I assume you have been to a doctor to have your son diagnosed, I would urge you to go back to your doctor and look at treatment options for your son. If he is verbally abusive (and threatens to be physically abusive) it may be time to reevaluate his treatment program.

 

I am not a doctor but I have witnessed a few of my peers have spectacular burnouts because they wanted to avoid the mental health "stigma" that comes with treatment. I would encourage you to look at new options for your son's treatment because it sounds like his condition is contributing to the overall problem. If you can treat the root cause, the other issues may be resolved also.

 

That's my $1.02 (I wrote a lot).(This message has been edited by Eagle707)(This message has been edited by Eagle707)(This message has been edited by Eagle707)

[fred8033]

When scouts join the troop we have a chat with the parents.

 

- We let them know that attendance is not mandatory. We recognize that scouts have competing priorities and scouts will need to make priority decisions.

 

- We also discuss that scouts do depend on each other. So missing a meetings and activities affects other scouts and the troop as a whole.

 

- We do ASK that parents don't use scouts as a punishment. Scouting is trying to teach lessons and be a positive influence on their sons. Why would you deny a positive influence on their lives as a punishment.

 

- Finally, we point out that, as with all things in life, you get out what you put in. If your not at scout meetings and events, your not going to benefit from the scouting program and you won't build the scouting friendships.

 

...

 

I'm sort of uncomfortable being on the same side of the topic as Beavah on this one.

 

...

 

It seems like at every meeting we have one or two scouts that sit in the corner and do homework. They particpate in the meeting portions where they are needed, but then focus on homework during the skills, games or other segments. But our meeting location has quiet nooks in the meeting room that loans itself to that.

[Tampa Turtle]

A good conversation, it is hard to have perspective on one's own kid...

 

As for 707's comments, he does see a Pediatric Neurologist and he came down on the no drugs side. We are also very active in the local and state Tourette's groups and keep up with the research. It is such a small population that their is very little drug research and the ones that folks have had limited results with I have seldom seen used more than a year. Tourettes probably shares the asbergers/autism genes and he is considered a moderate case at that (you might not spot his physical tics --it's the mental ones that get him).

 

I have always joked to teachers that he is like the borg on star trek. You try a strategy and it works...once. And he adapts or it changes or it is a good day vs bad day. But he is a good scout.

 

I think it is being 13 +hormones +tourettes +returning to middle school that is just blowing his fuse.

 

I do agree that taking away scouts as a punishment is a bad idea. Did it once and he still resents it. He is very, very active. He and his brother do as many "optional" activities as they can.

 

Personal Management MB is not a bad idea though he is supposed to maintain a school planner and put his scout stuff on that...which he does not seem capable of doing yet. In some ways he is 2 or more years behind in that kind of maturity.

 

And don't get me started about the girls....

[perdidochas]

Every child is different in terms of discipline, etc. For some taking Scouts away as punishment doesn't work. In that case, don't do it. In my case, it worked for my boys. I haven't had to repeat it since the oldest was a Bear. He's now a First Class Scout in his second year as a Boy Scout.

[Eagledad]

To me it doesn't matter whether it is Boy Scouts, baseball, video games or riding a motorcycle, the parent has to stay consistent to the stated expectations and consequences. In other words, only threaten a consequence you are willing to perform. Now if you think that maybe you were wrong and the consequence is too harsh, then you have to approach the matter with humility and admit you expected more than they were able to perform. But, you can only use that out once.

 

Parenting is the hardest thing responsible adults will ever do and none of us get it right the first or second time.

 

Barry