If Scouting were left up to the Scout

[SSScout]

Mssr. Scoutfish set ze leetle grey cells roiling when he said:

""I hope everybody understood that this would be something that was up to the scout....not anybody else""

 

Well, what would happen IF Scouting really were left up to the Scout?

Would the Handbook look the same?

Would we even have a Fieldbook?

Would there be as many Eagle Scouts each year?

Would there be a "FIrst Class in the First Year" movement?

How would the uniform look?

If the mentioned broken ankle Scout had HIS way, would WE be having this conversation?

How much of Scouting has been "up to the Scout"... ever?

[Scoutfish]

Great question!

 

Kinda like advancement and working on Eagle: Some scouts might not even bother to put their video games or phones down long enough to show up to a meeting. But the scouts who actually did work and show up and who had self discipline would be the real standouts!

,

 

Uniform? LOL! Dirty jeans and a smelly wrinkeed t-shirt with the latestly cool retro band on it!

 

Those who are pushed into it will probably drop out. Those who really like it might raise the bar.

[Basementdweller]

Would the Handbook look the same? Heck no, I would love to see how it would turn out. I probably wouldn't understand the logic on how it was put together.

 

Would we even have a Fieldbook? I think the field book and handbook would merge into one book

 

Would there be as many Eagle Scouts each year? No, many boys get eagle for mom and dad they are pushing for it.

 

Would there be a "FIrst Class in the First Year" movement? No, still a few very motivated boys would do it but to the level it is now. No.

 

How would the uniform look? It would be different, I would like to see.

 

 

 

The problem our troop stuggles with is the lack of older youth leaders to show the new boys the way.......So the adults end up helping with the yearly planning, adding new ideas and new directions. Repetition is the bane of adventure.

 

[qwazse]

You'd have Venturing.

Trust me, the grass ain't any greener.

At least it ain't any browner.

[desertrat77]

Less homework, lectures, and sitting around meeting rooms.

 

More outdoors.

 

Advancement will still happen, but as mentioned by Basement and others, it will be a personal commitment and not a lockstep/death march induced by leaders and parents (much to the bane of bean counters and stats inflaters around the BSA whose mantra is "quantity over quality!")

 

I predict uniforms will still exist but will reflect the culture of the troop. Some old school throwbacks, some relaxed with tees and jeans, some strict/by the book, etc

 

In most cases it will not be Lord of the Flies. When I was a unit level leader, I was always surprised and pleased with the structure, foresight, and high standards the Patrol LC/Troop LC (pick your era) would espouse and pursue, all on their own.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[Tampa Turtle]

My boy nearly didn't pass his 1st class BOR when asked what he would do different if he ran Boy Scouts:

 

-More dangerous outdoor activities.

-Camping without equipment; survival style.

-Games (aka paintball-like) where they get to shoot at each other.

 

The CC almost choked over the "shooting at each other in the woods" comment but a mom who knew my boy interpreted it as "more adventure at camp-outs".

[Beavah]

Yah, "Lord of da Flies" references to kids always confuse me. Lord of da Flies was an allegory written by an adult about adult society. Anyone who knows kids knows they don't think or act like that, eh? Adults do.

 

Generally speakin', boys are stricter than adults in terms of expectations and behavior. I'm always amused when I ask lads at EBORs about their best and worst MBs. Universally the "best" badge was the one where an adult really challenged the lad and made the badge actually mean something. Da worst badge universally is a summer camp badge that was a "blow off". One of these days I should videotape EBORs and send excerpts to da "don't add to requirements" blatherers. For da boys, advancement means challenge and ability, not signoffs and bookwork.

 

Met a new scout last week who was carrying around a well-worn book he'd gotten for Christmas or a birthday or some such and had clearly spent many many hours pouring over. It was about a thousand pages in small type, with detailed information and photos and diagrams about just about every outdoor adventure pursuit yeh can imagine. Like a BSA field book on steroids. No smarmy feel-good adult blather, just adventure, challenge, and honor. Left to the boys, I reckon our handbook would look somethin' like that.

 

Da uniform? That's an easy one. No badges, dongles, woggles or beads past cub scouts. Da original uniform was an adventure uniform of an army scout. Left to their own devices, the lads would have camo BDUs or North Face style outdoor adventure wear. And they'd be proud to wear either outside of scout events.

 

Sometimes I wish we adults would listen better, because da program would be stronger. But there's still plenty of room for us, eh? Boys like every human wouldn't challenge themselves anywhere near as much if we weren't there to push, cajole, challenge and praise. While they have an innate sense of justice, balancing that with compassion takes some good role models of servant leadership. And as we all know, gettin' things planned and organized is also somethin' boys learn through example and instruction. . We adults do have things to contribute, as much as we also have things where we listen.

 

Beavah

[desertrat77]

Beavah, I know this isn't a literature thread...but regardless of the author's intent, kids can and have run amok ala Lord of the Flies. Maybe not to the extreme of the book, but run amok nonetheless.

[Thomas54]

 

We pretty much let the scouts pick the trips. Left to decide themselves they pick the biggest most adventurous trips (read expensive). They seek adventure.

 

When asked about troop meetings, they crave structure and discipline especially in others. However these same scouts are the one who interrupt the speaker the most likely play and wrestle then to work on patrol boxes or patrol flags.

 

I agree with the uniform as Bev mentioned. The scouts would likely change it to a mush more outdoor oriented uniform with out all the Christmas tree nonsense on it now.

 

 

[perdidochas]

Tampa,

 

If I had your boy in a BOR, I would have given him a standing ovation for that one. I'd also have him talk at the next PLC.

[Basementdweller]

My guys are dieing to go paint balling.......Keep telling them to go as friends outside of scouting. I can still drive but no scout shirts......They just don't understand.

 

My son just had a birthday party and we played laser tag at the place. Basically it was his patrol and cousins with the SPL for good measure. the SPL wanted to do a patrol vs patrol match.......well, ya know the rules about that.

 

So how do you explain Nationals guidelines with out becoming NO MEN and perceived as the roadblock.

[SR540Beaver]

I'm a huge fan and promoter of boy led. We as adults need to listen much more to what they want so we can have a program that interests them and attracts new boys. That being said, you have to have adult guidance. Imagine if we let the schools be student led or if we just handed a kid the keys to a car when he turns 16. Good ideas? Probably not. Whether we like it or not, Scouting would cease to exist without adults. BP knew that boys form gangs by nature. He didn't design a movement that let the gangs do whatever they wanted willy nilly. He designed a program with structure to channel their energies in a positive way towards self reliance, citizenship, leadership, etc. A troop with a bunch of adults barking orders at boys isn't scouting. A troop where the adults allow the boys to do anything they want isn't scouting either. It takes boys with dreams and adults to mentor to have scouting.

[Tampa Turtle]

My boy walks around with a SAS survival manual more than his Scout book.

[Beavah]

I know this isn't a literature thread...but regardless of the author's intent, kids can and have run amok ala Lord of the Flies.

 

Horse hockey. Not without adults instigatin' it or feedin' it somehow. Now many a unit committee - those look like Lord of the Flies.

 

My son just had a birthday party and we played laser tag at the place. Basically it was his patrol and cousins with the SPL for good measure. the SPL wanted to do a patrol vs patrol match.......well, ya know the rules about that....So how do you explain Nationals guidelines with out becoming NO MEN and perceived as the roadblock.

 

Nuthin' at all wrong with the lads playin' patrol vs. patrol at someone's private birthday party, BasementDweller. Not a single rule against it.

 

I tried for a bit as a commish to explain National's guidelines. I believe too much in honesty and integrity to be able to pull it off. I think we have that obligation to each other, eh? It's not a safety issue. It's not a PR or perception issue for at least 95% of our market. It's just old folks like me who dislike and distrust young people doin' new things. Like da towns who ban skateboarders but not cyclists or da skiers who hate snowboarders. Yeh hear arguments, but they're all nonsense.

 

So I think yeh just say it's nuts and it's foolish and then yeh get on with things. But there's no doubt that if Scoutin' was left to the scouts, those prohibitions would vanish overnight. By contrast, da kids seem OK with da prohibition on exploring abandoned mines.

 

Beavah

 

 

[desertrat77]

"Horse hockey. Not without adults instigatin' it or feedin' it somehow. Now many a unit committee - those look like Lord of the Flies"

 

Beavah, my experience runs counter to your argument. It only takes one kid to terrorize his peers, recruit kids to do things they normally wouldn't do--and he can it all on his own. The kicker: he'll wait till the adults aren't around to do it.

 

He's usually pretty good at manipulating kids and adults, lulling the latter into believing he's a good kid.

 

Now if by instigation/feeding you mean adults condoning the behavior, or unwittingly feeding the false impressions, I can get on board with that.