The Easy Chair

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmmm...

 

So I was lookin' at da fellow's slideshow in da previous thread, and he had one photo in it that just struck me. It's a SM sittin' in a camp chair just behind da troop trailer, ordering about boys who are unloadin' the trailer.

 

Now I don't know if da fellow meant this photo as an example of what to do or what not to do, eh? For me it was a strong example of what not to do, and it points out how folks can take da old saw about sittin' in the camp chair and get it completely wrong.

 

For the lads, the Scoutmaster is the cool dude, eh? The guy most boys look up to and want to be like. Do we really want to set da example that the coolest, most experienced guy in camp sits on his duff and orders his minions to do chores? Because I guarantee that's a lesson they'll learn and emulate as patrol leaders or older scouts. The goal of an older scout will be to sit on your duff and order younger kids about. Bet you've seen that in a troop or two. I know I have.

 

To my mind, da SM has no more business than anyone being in a chair until all the work is done. Just like any group member, he should be an example by pitching in. If da SPL tells him it's his turn to scrub the latrine, he should scrub the latrine with gusto. If each patrol has things in hand, he should be a good adult patrol member and help get them squared away and then doin' something fun.

 

If the adult patrol needs help, and the Flaming Monkeys are done, they should offer to help, eh? A Scout is Loyal and Helpful and Kind. And if da adults are done and the Flaming Monkeys need help, they should offer to pitch in for the same reason. Da Flaming Monkey PL might say he's got it covered, but the offer is the right example. Sittin' on your arse and havin' coffee while a neighboring patrol struggles is not.

 

Da point of the "Easy Chair" bit is that the SM doesn't and shouldn't lead. That doesn't absolve him of the duty to be a good group member and follower; in fact, that servant-leadership is the best example, eh? All of us need to pitch in, all of us need to clean da latrine.

 

And when it's time to sit and relax in da camp chair, we all do that together, too.

 

Beavah

 

[bnelon44]

The drawing is of a troop meeting.

 

The Scouts were doing the training. Nothing really for a SM to do except watch until the SM minute time period

[ntrog8r]

bnelon44,

 

I suspect Beavah is referring to slide #36, "Directing-Explaing, Team Stage: Forming". The drawing of a troop meeting you refer to certainly does not indicate a SM doing anything other than enjoying the Scouts efforts - out of the way. Slide 36 has a photo of an adult sitting in camp chair pointing into a trailer while the Scouts are working. I believe this is what Beavah is referring to.

 

Without wanting to read too much into the photo, I suppose it would be less onerous if the SM were seen "directing" to only the SPL/PLs off to the side. This one gives the impression the adult leader is just sitting telling all the Scouts what to do.

 

BTW - I applaud your efforts; it obviously took a lot of work to put this together.

[bnelon44]

 

Good point. I will try to find another picture. Unfortunately that one is typical of about 10 I found in a 2 min search.

[Gary_Miller]

Beavah, I have to agree and disagree with you. I agree that the Scout Master should not be just sitting and ordering the boys around. I disagree that the SM or any other adults should do anymore but unload their own gear and set up their own camp area. Its not their job to pitch in and help the patrols. Its the youths job to do this. The SM is only there as an advisor and to ensure safety, not to do the work that is the responsibility of the youth and the youth leadership.

[Basementdweller]

Who was it that was applauding the Al Bundy Scoutmaster method???????

[Beavah]

I disagree that the SM or any other adults should do anymore but unload their own gear and set up their own camp area. Its not their job to pitch in and help the patrols.

 

Yah, all things in balance, eh?

 

Let's think for a minute about if you were on a private campout, one that you'd organized. What would you think about a fellow who came along and only took care of his own stuff? Never helped yeh out, didn't pitch in for group tasks.

 

I reckon you'd think da fellow was an arse. That he was failin' to demonstrate basic courtesy and good character.

 

And can a fellow who isn't demonstrating basic courtesy and good character ever be a good example for boys?

 

Now, you're also right to say that a fellow who started to take over and order you about when it was a trip you had set up and planned would also not be courteous. Might even be a worse offense. Not a good example either.

 

Somewhere in da middle the porridge is just right, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Eagle92]

I'm the one who coined the "Al Bundy Method" which consists of sitting in a chair, I think I'll need to specify in the adult campsite form now on, sitting in a chair, drinking coffee,or tea, hot cocoa, or bug juice. Sitting back and resposnding to Scouts who ask questions with "Have you asked your PL?" If it's a PL, then the response is "have you asked your SPL?" But that doesn't mean the SM barks orders, and sits on his duff all day. rather he has trained the SPL, knows that the SPL is in charge, and lets the SPL do his job of running things. Kinda like Lem sitting at the troop building while Whitey leads his patrol on a hike in Follow Me Boys. SM may walk around to make sure everythign is going well, and if it isn't, then counsel the SPL, repeat counsel NOT oder around the SPL, unless a serious matter is involved, i.e. First Aid is needed, serious discipline problem the PLs and SPL cannot handle, or new adult leader interference.

 

I haven't seen the ppt. but if the SM is in a chair barking orders, then that is the wrong image.

[Troop185]

The thing our scouts do not like about Philmont, is that the adults are suppose to sit down, and let the scouts do all the work!

 

These same scouts when they were new scouts, were taught that everyone on the camping trip work together. "The work is done, before the play begins!"

 

I have been taking our new Boy Scouts on a wilderness trip to Northern Ontario for over 20 years. They cannot believe that someone on the trip would not do their share on a portage; or backpacking. Sure, we let the scouts do the cooking; they need the practice. But everyone does the cleanup. The bigger, stronger person carry the most weight.

 

I think what you want to teach the scouts is that everything goes easier, when everyone helps out.

[bnelon44]

Share the load, share the fun

 

But the adults butt out of Scout buisness. The problems I have seen is that the adults are all in favor of sharing the load and 2 minutes in they start barking orders or making remarks about how the Scouts aren't doing it right.

 

By the way, the Philmont way, when we go, is that the adults share the load and have chores too. They just keep out of the planning and leading.

[neil_b]

"The problems I have seen is that the adults are all in favor of sharing the load and 2 minutes in they start barking orders or making remarks about how the Scouts aren't doing it right."

 

Amen. That is exactly the problem I have seen. Adults who think they are being "helpful" but are just annoying the boys. There is a fine line between the adult who is helping and the adult who is hovering. The boys don't need multiple adults sending the boys in different directions or constantly reminding them that they can't do things as efficiently as the adults.

 

Assuming the adults have their own tents and fly and other stuff to setup, if the boys can't setup theirs as efficiently that doesn't mean the adults always come to their rescue to prove what hard workers they are.

 

There may be exceptions for example if it's raining and things are more in a hurry. Otherwise, so what if it takes a little longer to setup camp?

[Dutch888]

great

[Eagledad]

>>The thing our scouts do not like about Philmont, is that the adults are suppose to sit down, and let the scouts do all the work!

[Eamonn]

Different situations call for doing things differently.

Can't say that I'm one for the "Easy Chair."

But a couple of summers back, I was at our Summer camp site on a Sunday as the campers were checking in.

There was this little fellow of about 13 maybe 14 leading the way followed by a person who I took for his Mum.

She was loaded to the hilt. It was almost comic. Sleeping bag under one arm, pack on her back, pillow under the other arm.

I couldn't stand by and watch.

I went to this pair and asked the Lad where he was going, he said the name of the site, I offered to take him there. But I then went about unloading Mum and loading the Scout. Being the nice fellow that I am, I carried the pillow.

 

A big problem I see is that adults have this idea what things are supposed to be like.

Back when we had the old WB course. The staff would arrive a couple of days ahead of the participants and set up the perfect camp site.

The idea being that this would serve as an example to the participants.

There were of course participants who really scrutinized each and every last detail trying to pick holes, but for the most part the idea of setting up something that was as near perfect as possible wasn't a bad one.

In my view it wasn't really fair.

The Staff had worked for a full day on perfecting this site.

The participants, some who didn't have anything like the experience of the staff had arrived at lunch time, messed around sewing patrol patches on. Moved to the site with their gear and were expected to set up camp, cook supper and be ready for the first presentation soon after.

This idea that everything has to be perfect just isn't so in the real world.

I've watched as Scouts have sat down and really enjoyed a meal that I wouldn't feed to my dog. Rather than say something or interfere. I just thank the Lord that I wasn't eating it with them.

On the boat, the Scouts do almost all the cooking.

I eaten more than my fair share of Al-dente rice and over cooked chicken.

Most times the Scouts will do the clean up, but on the last day I will pitch in and help ensure that everything is ship shape.

At home HWMBO tends to be a little on the bossy side, so when I'm away with Scouts I do my best to cut them a break.

Everything isn't perfect, a lot of times things don't go as planned, sometimes things just go wrong.

Having been around for a little while, I've learned to get past all of this and can say "That's OK!Maybe we have all learned something".

Ea.

[Alabama Scouter]

The dirtiest look I ever got at a camping trip was from a fellow adult (untrained). The adults

 

had set up their fly and gear, and this dad's sons patrol was behind schedule because they put

 

up personal gear first, then played, then started on their fly, after the rain had started.

 

 

I was sitting in a chair working on something, and Mr. XXXX made a point of being seen going to

 

help these boys erect the fly. It was a tense weekend after that, and I made a point to have a

 

Thorns and Roses before we left, to clear the air. Never do anything a boy can do (or what a

 

boy SHOULD have done)!

 

Now, if this had been a patrol of new scouts, who hadn't the experience of erecting the fly,

 

I'd have gone to help, and gladly. But 4th and 5th year scouts, not so much!!