If EDGE is bad/wrong/poor, How do you Teach Youth to Teac

[Eagledad]

The problem with EDGE is that adults are taking their young scouts' time to discuss teaching. A recent study showed that more 11 year old scouts were hurt falling out of their chair asleep while listening to adults talk about EDGE than from all woods tools injuries added together. Maybe a little exaggeration.

Do we really want 11 year old's know what E-D-G-E means? Does that sound like fun in the woods? No wonder the Handbook is becoming more irrelevant with each new issue?

We had a Webelos visit our troop 5 times before joining. It took that long because his mom hated our boy run style troop program. She finally relented, but she was extremely skeptical until she, while sitting out of sight in her tent at summer camp, watched an older scout approach a new scout to offer help him learn first-aid. She was so impressed by the simple words, "What are you doing? Can I help?", that she recruited 30 new scouts for us next year. I'm trying to imagine if she would have been as impressed if the older scout approached the young scout and said, "Can I EDGE you with first-aid?". 

OK, maybe I'm a little over the top, but I think I'm just thinking the same as quazse. I believe National put EDGE in the Scout Handbook for the adults to learn, not the scouts.

If a scout wants to teach a skill, they will naturally in their own way, get the information across.

That being said, I think EDGE should be taught at NYLT. After all, NYLT is course for advanced skills. And if the older scouts want to pass the information down to the younger scouts, all that much better. But when a new scout walks through the door, the SM shouldn't have to say "come young scout, I want to take you away from your patrol so we can talk about EDGE.".

Barry

[fred8033]

5 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Do we really want 11 year old's know what E-D-G-E means? Does that sound like fun in the woods? No wonder the Handbook is becoming more irrelevant with each new issue?

You are dead on right.  An 11 year old is not the audience for the theory of learning.  Rank and MB requirements should not say EDGE.  Instead, say "Teach a scout" or "Show a new scout".  As scouts mature and age, then NYLT can reveal that BSA's preferred teaching method is EDGE and here's how it works.  

Learning is a continuum.  (leadership, teaching, etc).  At the earlier levels, learning starts with doing.  This matches Baden-Powell saying that advancement is the natural result of being active.  So, learning EDGE should be a natural result of helping each others.  At those earlier levels, we encourage confidence in their new knowledge and confidence in reaching out to help others.  ... Plus, teaching EDGE makes the learning too dry and boring for the scouts. 

I think there is a corollary with teaching leadership.  Troops would be more successful teaching leadership if they stopped staying they are teaching leadership.  I cringe when I hear it.  Plus, It kills the buzz and is clumsy and inconsistent at best.   Rather, units should focus on a quality program.  Then advanced leader training can explain the meta-learning objectives and methods such as leadership.  

[Eagledad]

Wow Fred, that's perfect. 

Barry

Edited June 5, 2019 by Eagledad

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, ItsBrian said:

... we stop and review a skill from earlier in the week. Some scouts remember certain skills more than others, and I try to get them to ask their buddies for help before coming to me. I guess you could call this enabling?

I don't normally put labels on things, but I would say you were referencing. It wasn't a book, but you were telling your students, "I'm not the only guy you can count on to master this." You were referring them to someone else.

But you do bring home a point. We'll never teach a motor skill (or most cognitive skills) without repetition. I've been trying to maintain all of the motors at my mother-in-law's place. It's a hassle, especially on hot days when that great lake is flat. But, more than once, I've had to break down and assemble the same motor more than once. It doesn't matter the number of manuals and videos and "explain me this" from the parts store, if I did it once last year, I don't know how this year. But, if I did it 2-4 times last year, you bet I know the page on the service manual, what wrenches to line up, where the spares are, and when supper will have to be so I can get that hood closed, engine run, and job done. (Well, except when Momma Mouse concludes that spark wire insulation is good for nesting.)

So, I guess the ideal teaching method in my mind is something like: Reference, Demonstrate, Drill (Repeat). The nice thing about the patrol method and working with youth is that repetition comes as scouts mature a year to the point that they can teach younger scouts (and charm @Eagledad's skeptical moms in the process).

Edited June 5, 2019 by qwazse

[MattR]

On 6/5/2019 at 12:37 PM, Eagledad said:

She was so impressed by the simple words, "What are you doing? Can I help?"

How do you teach that skill? The part about caring. Teaching or leadership, attitude is probably more important than technique.

[perdidochas]

On 6/4/2019 at 10:50 AM, qwazse said:

I thought I'd drop a quick anecdote about signing off for Life Rank #6. There are a number of quiescent threads on this topic. I'm resurrecting this one in particular because it was spawned by our beloved OGE (R.I.P.).

SM and I were chatting about the super-cool US contingent World Jambo neckers (the largest I've ever seen from BSA) when along comes a Star scout asking to sign off a couple of remaining requirements. This scout is more action than words. We weren't sure he'd stick around, but he did and is a genuine quality youth.

He said, "I taught so many kids this stuff, do I have to do one in particular?"

We asked him if they learned what he taught them, he said they did.

I asked if he used the EDGE method, did he even know what it stood for? He gave me that "really-do-I-have-to?" look.

I then asked the outgoing SM (who had actually consumed a troop meeting to teach EDGE) if he could tell the scout what the method was. The guy tripped over the first letter. "Uh, Engourage?"

I concluded. "Seems like you know it as well as Mr. Old SM. Get your signature from him and ask Mr. New SM for your conference. Oh, and keep teaching our scouts as well as you've already been doing."

 

When a Star wanted that requirement signed off, we would ask the younger Scout that he trained to show us the skill at the next meeting (the meeting after he was trained to do a skill by the Star Scout). If the younger Scout couldn't do it, we would require the Star to try again.  

[Eagledad]

On 6/5/2019 at 1:37 PM, Eagledad said:

She was so impressed by the simple words, "What are you doing? Can I help?"

On 6/8/2019 at 4:33 PM, MattR said:

How do you teach that skill? The part about caring. Teaching or leadership, attitude is probably more important than technique.

 

I just now saw this. To be honest, I don't remember if that scouts action was more representative of the scout's character, or the troop culture.

But, the way I encouraged that type of action by scouts was initiating it through the PLC and acknowledging the actions through the whole troop. I called it a servant lifestyle to adults, but team work to the scouts. I impressed on them that when they saw another youth leader on the PLC struggling, walk over and offer help. What started me that way was the PLs struggle to deal with misbehaved scouts. We had several approaches, basically asking the misbehaved scout to leave the area. But, we also encouraged other youth leaders nearby to offer help.  

We also taught servant leadership as basically serving each member of the patrol. Get involved with their scouts and provide support if they show a need. The actions of leading by serving is a slow learned process because it's such difference of definition for leadership. In truth, it's giving the PL (and rest of the officers) permission to get more personal and offer their support. It starts with little actions like jumping in and helping with cooking or kp if the tasks are going slow. Asking their scouts if they brought rain gear or extra socks. The small actions leads to more intentional  offering their support and assistance. 

Some of us humans are better than others at serving others. But, if we initiate the idea of it and support the actions, everybody will eventually became part of the culture in some part, even if the part is small.

Barry