Kids that dont work on trips

[JoeLI]

Hello All,

I wanted to seek the advise of you with a problem we are experiencing in our troop. We have about 40 boys from 11 to 17 and like every group they are comprised of several types. We are an active troop and do many camping trips. Each patrol is given responsibility to cook their meals and division of labor. Generally works but we have a group of kids that just do not do anything - when its time to pack up, they stand there. When they are told to do something - if they do it at all its half-hearted at best. Many times they flat out refuse to do it. This puts more burdens on the boys that do work, makes them less likely to work and in general is a problem that can not be allowed to continue.

 

How can we deal with these types of kids?

[shortridge]

If all these boys are in the same patrol, one solution is to separate patrols in individual campsites. Each patrol would be responsible for everything on its own - setup, cooking, cleanup, campfires, whatever. No division of labor - just total division.

 

If they don't want to work, they then have to deal with the consequences. Cold food? Miss the hike because they took too long cleaning up at lunch? Tents packed away wet? The rest of the troop doesn't have to suffer. And the slackers will soon be embarassed into getting better. Nothing like peer pressure ...

[dg98adams]

This is not a new problem, and I agree with Shortridge, but one I think you can work out, but it's a little painful in the beginning.

 

IMO, when the Scouts (not kids) have a task that is within their skill level, assuming a more experienced Scout (not adult Scouter) is guiding them (and not doing it for them), do not let anyone else "do the task" for them to "just get it done, so we can go to the next thing".

 

The entire Patrol may have to "sit and wait" for them to complete the task. If this impacts the Patrol participation activity, then so be it.

 

These Scouts have figured out (or manipulated the others) that if they don't expend the effort, some one else will eventually do it for them.

 

I call it the "little brother syndrome" - my little brother was a Master and I facilitated it because I would do it for him to keep him and me out of trouble.

 

In fact, the more this happens (and works for them) the less they are willing to do.

 

If you hold to this idea in Troop/Patrol meetings and any outing, the "less than motivated" Scouts will get the idea they can't just wait for some one else to do it. And will either get with the program or seek happiness elsewhere.

 

Missing the next thing (or fun thing) because not doing the current task has to be a consequence.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[JoeLI]

Thanks for the information.

 

To give you more details - these scouts are spread out among patrols. Patrol Leaders get together in the beginning of the year and they have a 'draft' of the scouts with the goal being some older scouts in with newer ones. The one exception is our first year scouts - we keep them together to ease the transition from mommy.

 

Most of our issues come up when its time to leave. things need to be packed up, cleaned and made ready to depart. This selected group will find all sorts of ways to not do work. This leads to delays in getting under way for everyone.

[moosetracker]

How about announcing the Leave time for about an hour before you really want to leave. Have the other boys do what is expected, not what the other boys need to do, then have extra fun with the boys who are done.. Some type of game, last trip to the pond.. Visiting with the troops nearby (if at a camporee)..

Leave the other boys to dawdle, but do not lift a finger to do their work load for them.

 

Not a perfect solution, I can see the holes in it, without others pointing them out.

 

It may get them to speed up, because no one is doing it for them, or it may end up the troop will have a new routine of breaking camp an hour earlier then necessary and then have an hour of fun for those who get their work done quickly.

[Eagledad]

This is a very good question that most of us deal with at one time or another. There are a lot of factors involved in a troop program, but the vision of scouting is to develop men who make ethical and moral decisions based from the Scout Law. Sounds simple but Im not sure that simplicity alone motivates boys to action.

 

We also need to keep in mind that for a person to change his habits, he must personally make that choice. Otherwise they will continue to make the bad choice, which sounds like your problem here.

 

And this is frustrating for adults because what we naturally want to make the choice for them by just ordering them to do the chore. Which takes us back to if they dont personally choose to change their habit or attitude toward the task, they will repeat it leaving the adults or PLC to continue making the choice for the scouts. Rarely anything good comes from that vicious cycle.

 

So we must learn and develop the skill of giving satisfaction to success and annoyance to failure. The troop needs to develop the program around rewarding right choices, and more importantly annoyances for wrong choices. No matter how big or small the task or decisions, the troop must provide constant conditions that tell success from failure.

 

I know nothing about your troop program accept that the scouts dont feel part of a team and they dont feel motivated to succeed. What you have to do is change those two things.

 

I remember when our young troop struggle with scouts that were in no hurry to help break camp. By accident, our troop got in the habit of stopping by a store somewhere on the way home for a junk food hit. We also always told the parents a time to pick up their sons back at the church. We, the SPL and adults, decided to let the lazy scouts be lazy. It because obvious at some point while just standing there and waiting that the troop was going to leave very late. When a scout ask the SPL about it, he explained parents would be waiting, so we would skip the junk food stop.

 

I cant tell you how much that changed the atmosphere of breaking camp for years after that. It also changed how the adults approached the troop program. Once they started the habit of success, they seem to like and try to keep that success. While the junk food stop was the initial signal of success, the performance of completing the task on time quickly replaced that junk food motivation. Success of meeting the expectation of being on time was the vision of success and the scouts learned to work as a team to reach that success.

 

I am a big believer in schedules as great teachers of making good choices. Our PLC had schedules for everything because shedules are clear indicators of success and failures. A schedule should be tight enough to force a patrol to work as a team and also clear enough for the scouts to see when they succeeded and failed. For example, our troop on campouts typically assembles for daily activities around 8:30. That means the patrol had to work as a team to get up, cook breakfast (we cooked all meals accept lunch), do KP and clean camp, and then assemble as a patrol by 8:30. If they failed, they missed the activity.

 

Is your schedule allowing the scouts too much time? Will they know when they have failed? Will they be annoyed by failure? What satisfaction will they get if the succeed?

 

Scouting is not as easy, especially a boy run program where the scouts are themselves supposed to learn from their choices. Good scouting takes practice and we adults need to always learn from our choices to get better at helping scouts grow from their choices.

 

I blathered on a little long. Let us know how you deal with the problem.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[boomerscout]

missing that junk food stop is great.

other possibilities: each does not get their campout patch until their share of the work is done, as the work is done those few take off for home leaving the slackers behind (this needs a driver willing to spend the entire Sunday at the site with a book to read), PLs can expel the problem Scouts into a new patrol all their own where they are forced to sink or swim - just make this face-saving

Some may be truly lazy. Others may have such a miserable homelife, where they are screamed at- or worse - for the slightest infraction, that they will do little at camp so as not to risk being screamed at by "strangers" for the slightest mistake

You have ensured that the program offered is not boring or dumbed down beneath their skill level?

[Eagle92]

We didn't have the junk food stop, he did the McDonald's stop. everyone knew if we running late lunch would be missed.

 

Never had to skip lunch. But we had heard stories from the older scouts.

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>Never had to skip lunch. But we had heard stories from the older scouts.

[SeattlePioneer]

To a new Boy Scout, Heaven is the idea of being a Patrol Leader and being able to boss other Scouts around.

 

The bubble usually pops the first day a boy DOES become Patrol Leader and discovers that other boys often don't jump just because he gives an order.

 

Dealing with that issue is a goodly part of what "LEADERSHIP" is all about.

 

So I would ask, "What does the patrol leader want to do about it?" I'd draw the line at flogging or branding.

 

[BrentAllen]

We do our best to treat membership in our Troop as a privilege, not a right. Have either the PL, SPL or SM let the boys know they have to pull their own weight, if they want to be members of the Troop. They can also let these boys know that if the Scouts can't get it worked out, the adults may have to step in, and it will no longer be the "Boy" Scouts, but the "Adult" Scouts (aka Webelos III), which won't be nearly as fun.

[Twocubdad]

We figured out several years ago the motivation of stopping at a country store on the way home. At the campfire Saturday night we would announce the drop-dead, going-down-the-road, bug-hitting-windshield depature time. The boys almost always complied. Only two problems are the close-in campouts where there isn't a good store between here and there, and that the adults, who like their big chuck boxes and bigger breakfasts, are as often as not the ones late packing.

 

My experience is there are two types of boys here. Okay, three, but the third are the ones on medication who are either waiting for their morning meds to kick in or their evening meds to wear off. But that's another thread.

 

Some kids are simply unaccustomed to putting themselves out and doing things which may be difficult or uncomfortable, like getting out of the sack on a cold morning and starting a fire. They're either spoiled and pampered or just lazy. Typically, those boys will respond to leadership, motivation and positive peer pressure. They want to be a part of the team and be seen in a good light. They either don't know how or don't know what is expected of them. But they're trainable.

 

The other type of kid is the one who doesn't want to be there in the first place. He's in Scouting because mommy and daddy make him. Being a horse's puttut (sp?) is his way of letting everyone know he doesn't want to be there and/or is above it all. They are difficult to lead and motivate because they see leadership and motivation as another opportunity to rebel. They may catch the spark and turn around, or they may finally wear down their parents, or do something so stupid they're asked to leave. You have to hope it doesn't come to that.

 

No one wants to hear this, and I write it in fear of the PC-police kicking in my door, but the herd (patrol) will eventually take care of itself. The other boys in the patrol will put up with a slackard for only so long. The other Scout may take his turn cooking breakfast, washing dishes or packing his gear a couple times, but not forever. And I don't think they should. Cheerful Service and Service Leadership doesn't mean being someone's punk. Remember the 13th point of the Scout Law -- A Scout is No Fool.

 

Adult leaders need to be careful to make sure the peer pressure is positive and not negative. It takes a very delicate touch by the leadership to make sure socialization doesn't cross the line into hazing.

 

[JoeBob]

1- I'm fairly ignorant of the delicacies involved with the patrol method. Still working my way back up from Den Leader; but:

2- Why don't you put all the slackers in the same patrol? Even temporarily?

You don't work, you don't eat. You don't pitch tents, you sleep under the stars, or clouds, or rain...

 

[jr56]

All these are great ideas. But the big problem I have encountered is if a patrol has to miss a meal because they failed to prepare it, Mommy and Daddy are screaming at me the next time they see me because their prescious little angel almost starved to death. Before everybody jumps down my throat, I've tried all the classic approaches, educating the parents etc......many troop operate like weblos 3 and it just doesn't work.

[Eagledad]

>>Mommy and Daddy are screaming at me the next time they see me because their prescious little angel almost starved to death. Before everybody jumps down my throat, I've tried all the classic approaches, educating the parents etc......many troop operate like weblos 3 and it just doesn't work.