BSA swimming vs. dropping out

[Basementdweller]

We have a psyco boy scout. kid can't do a blasted thing with out mom. Including his board of reviews. MOM is gonna get her eagle. The kid has no heart.

 

I am of the growing opinion that beyond physical problems the boy needs to do it or he doesn't. Obviously someone with cerebal palsy isn't gonna swim laps, but I have seen a young man swim one and I was impressed.

 

Spending hundreds of dollars to determine if the boy is right in the head or not is ridiculous.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Love the fear of heights analogy, Stosh. I taught swimming for many years. I had a lot of tricks to get kids over the fear of the water, but throwing them in the middle of the pool wasn't one of them. My favorite was to give the kid a free pass to afternoon swim. After awhile, I'd catch them in the pool splashing around with their mates and say, "okay, now let me see you float on your stomach."

 

Frank, the big question for me is where the parents are on all this (or does the boy live with his uncle)? Are they B-D's psycho parents who spend all their time out front of the boy, picking up stones and sticks in his path and making excuses, or do they want him to learn to swim?

 

Depending on the parents' attitude, I'd be leary of going down the medical exemption trail for something like this. If you don't believe a medical exemption is warranted in this case, I wouldn't suggest it. It's too easy for folks to find a sympathetic doctor or therapist who will sign any dang thing. Been there, got the shirt and patch.

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Had another thought.

 

 

So if the young man can't/won't swim why would he drop out????

 

Is the program he is involved in only about advancement? We have had numerous debates regarding BSA and it only being about the rank advancement. Who is the best eagle scout, a 13 year old or an 18 year old.

 

Just because he cannot swim in not an excuse to drop out of Boy scouts, who cares what rank you are?

[Eagle007]

If anyone wants to spend the money, I know of a pediatrician in my area that hands out ADD/ADHD scripts like they were M&Ms. All one needs to say is one of any of the "magical phrases" such as "the teacher said he blurted out an answer without raising his hand" or "he won't stop acting like an all American little". He would also give out the needed excuse for this scout if the right phrase was said by the parents. If you think I'm lying then I have hundreds of medical and pharmacy receipts from the ex (for which I pay half) to prove it. Sad thing is if the boy needed the meds, I wouldn't have any problem with it. But he doesn't.

[OldGreyEagle]

There is a huge difference from prescribing Adderall and Ritalin for every nervous twitch to classifying someone "Permanently disabled" due to fear of water and having a health practioner making that evaluation and documenting it.

 

Much as in the Liability/Reality thread has anyone seen a youth permanently labeled hydrophobic with appropriate documentation?

[Frank17]

Thanks all. I agree with most of the input.

 

The scout does not live with his uncle; his cousin is in our Troop as well, and uncle transports both sometimes to the meetings. Parents are involved, and have been on campouts with our Troop. I know they would love it if he would learn to swim, but have been unwilling to press the issue with Scout. I believe they hope we will do it for them.

 

I agree that scouting is not about advancement or getting Eagle, but given how scouting is promoted nationally and locally, it is hard to convince a scout he is not "failing" when he falls behind his peers in terms of advancement. I like the idea of getting him to focus on MBs instead of rank; that may induce him to stay. I am going to discuss it with his parents this weekend. Hopefully we can help him along. I do not believe the rank waivers are really applicable since I am 90% sure he has never had a medical / psychological diagnosis of the problem. But I will offer it as an option anyway.

[Venividi]

Had a similar situation a number of years ago when the swimming requirement could be waived without a doctors statement. The father talked to me asserting that the lad was taking swimming lessons, and that he would continue to take swimming lessons, but he was frightened of water and wouldn't be able to pass the second class swim requirements. I discussed with the committee and came to the consensus that it would be better to go with the alternate requirements than to disuade the scout from scouting.

Turned out to be one of the worst decisions that we made. The boy did not like scouting, the outdoors, or even being with his patrol mates. He did want to please his father, who wanted his son to get an Eagle. It was the first step in continued intervention by the father to push for advancement approval for his son while the boy made little to no effort in scouting.

[rdclements]

I never realized that fear of water was so common. That's just not something I've encountered often.

[Eagle007]

I think the scout should work at his own pace and not be pushed into something that he has made in his mind not to do. This is a voluntary program and if he wants to advance for advancement sake then he knows what is required. Allow the scout to have fun and enjoy himself. Maybe he will eventually learn to like water.

 

I don't think BSA needs to be bending the rules or having alternatives everytime we see someone with a "phobia" of something. If that were the case, the requirements would be meaningless, in my opinion.

[Eagle732]

Bring back Swimming and Lifesaving MB only for Eagle, no alternate MBs! I see boys in my troop taking Emergency Preparedness because it's easier than Lifesaving, not because they can't swim. Swimming and Lifesaving are important skill that all Scouts should learn.

[perdidochas]

I agree that Swimming should be an Eagle requirement. I disagree about Lifesaving. I think Lifesaving would be watered down as an Eagle required badge. I want Lifesavers to be doing it because they truly want to, not because it's an Eagle badge. That said, I think I would change the Emergency preparedness to a Wilderness First Aid badge as a requirement.

[Eagle92]

I just did a quick review of Lifesaving MB requirements, and IMHO some of them seem tougher than some of ARC Lifeguard Requirements back in the day. Heck some of the MB requirements are harder than YMCA requirements I taught back in the day. Not going to comment about that any futher as it will lead to a rant

 

That said, I would go with Peri's recommendation of making it Lifesaving OR Wilderness FA. There are some scouts that i would not want taking Lifesaving as they would probably end up being a victim, resulting in a double drowning.

[Beavah]

Yah, I sorta like da rescue element. Lifesaving or High Angle Rescue (for climbing) or confined space rescue (for caving).

 

Of course then we'll no doubt have lads who have phobias of water, heights AND confined spaces.

 

B

[Mister T]

100% if the boys in my troop have arachophobia.

 

No more camping, along comes a spider and frightens poor Jimmy away.

[Eagle732]

Water down Lifesaving, now that's funny!

 

Wilderness First Aid instead of Lifesaving is a great idea. It would need to be more available. I wouldn't want to see it taught at summer camp where Scouts are signed off after 4 hours of instruction. (I don't allow our Scouts to take First Aid MB at camp, we teach it in house. It's too important to sign off after a few hours of instruction).

 

All of my Scouts have Swimming MB but most take E.P. because it's easier. They would be better off taking Lifesaving in my opinion.

 

Lifesaving MB holders becoming a victim during a rescue? Well they teach how not to be a victim as part of the training. Of course it's possible but one could also become a victim during any type of rescue (fire, electrocution, etc.). Rescue is a dangerous business (from a 28 year professional firefighter, paramedic).