BSA swimming vs. dropping out

[Frank17]

Just got this message from one of my ASMs who is also a lifeguard and an advanced scuba instructor:

 

"I got myself into an interesting conversation with Scout's uncle who was there. He is concerned that Scout is likely to quit since he can't see himself advancing because of his issues with swimming. I remember at least two swim tests with him and in talking with his uncle, I think this goes beyond ability to swim, and into phobia of swimming. I told him that we could all talk with you about looking at the requirements and maybe even petitioning the council to waive the swimming requirements if this is really the issue and not push the swimming."

 

 

 

This is not new to me. Scout has avoided all swimming activities and does not even really like to be near the water. At Summer Camp, I tried to go in with him and other new scouts during open swim and he would have none of it (started hyper-ventilating). Also tried to get some of the swim counselors / lifeguards to work with him, but did not want that either. Have suggested several local classes offerered through colleges or Red Cross to his family, but do not believe they ever pushed the issue, and I know he never went.

 

My first impulse is to say no, you need to learn to swim, and suggest local classes again. Or, should I look at his phobia as a medical disability and treat it appropriately through council, asking for requirement waivers? Opinions?(This message has been edited by frank17)

[perdidochas]

Swimming is a basic survival skill. There is a reason that Scouting has that requirement. I think the boy's life will be enriched if he gets rid of that phobia.

[jr56]

Not really sure if a "phobia" would qualify as a permanent mental disability or not. It's certainly not a physical disablility. Those are the only 2 things that allow for requirements to be altered.

[moosetracker]

I asked very similar question around November of last year..

 

Here are the responses I got in this link..

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=295653#id_295836

 

 

PS.. Husband emailed scouts with problem.. Either they needed physcologist with written forms stating it was a permanent disablity, or he needed to do the swimming then he offered to help with 3 trained swimming instructors working with them 3 to 1 (where 3 was swim instructors).. Never heard back from them, so don't know the end of the story.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[dg98adams]

If the Parents get it documented it is a medical/psychological issue, then you can go from there... until then, I don't believe there's anything to pursue with council.

[Frank17]

Moose:

 

Thanks, I read your post's reponses and they agreed with my thoughts. I just wanted to make sure I was not being insensitive about the problem.

 

My memory of learning swimming in 1st grade in Europe in the 60's was that I was not thrilled about the water either. I have a vivid memory of one kid, the smallest, skinniest in the class, who was TERRIFIED of the water. The teacher grabbed him and tossed him into the center of the pool. He dog-paddled to the edge; tossed in again; repeat until he calmed down enough to stay in the water and listen to instructions. By the end of the 4 week course, he was the best swimmer of all of us. Of course, that would be child abuse today. But I agree, many of what parents describe as phobias may be general nervousness.

[ADCmohegan]

This is one question that I would leave to the professionals. If a Licensed Psychologist or Psychiatrist says the scout is too disabled to perform the required testing, then councils medical review team should have an easy time approving alternate requirements for him. We are not in a position to judge for ourselves how to best proceed in this area.

How long does a crippling phobia need to last for it to be Permanent in the eyes of the BSA? Id submit that if the treatment of this condition would delay the lads ability to complete the swimming requirements beyond the point where he could reasonably be expected to complete Eagle, then it is permanent enough.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Not to be an arrogant pedantic book thumper but these are the rules on Alternative Rank Requirements:

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/earlyalt.aspx

 

A Scout who is unable to complete any or all of the requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank because he is physically or mentally disabled may complete alternative requirements if the following criteria are met:

 

1.The physical or mental disability must be of a permanent rather than a temporary nature.

 

2.A clear and concise medical statement concerning the Scout's disabilities must be submitted by a physician licensed to practice medicine. In the alternative, an evaluation statement certified by an educational administrator may be submitted. The medical statement must state the doctor's opinion that the Scout cannot complete the requirement(s) because of a permanent disability.

 

3.The Scout, his parents, or leaders must submit to the council advancement committee, a written request that the Scout be allowed to complete alternate requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank. The request must explain the suggested alternate requirements in sufficient detail so as to allow the advancement committee to make a decision. The request must also include the medical statement required in paragraph two above. The written request for alternate requirements must be submitted to and approved by the local council prior to completing alternate requirements.

 

4.The Scout must complete as many of the regular requirements as his ability permits before applying for alternate requirements.

 

5.The alternate requirements must be of such a nature that they are as demanding of effort as the regular requirements.

 

6.When alternate requirements involve physical activity, they must be approved by the physician.

 

7.The unit leader and any board of review must explain that to attain Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank a candidate is expected to do his best in developing himself to the limit of his resources.

 

8.The written request must be approved by the council advancement committee, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for disabled youth. The decision of the council advancement committee should be recorded and delivered to the Scout and his leader.

 

Seems like a lot of work if you are "just scared to get wet" , then again we have had many such stories presented here and for every story of pure hydrophobia there are many more stories about an adult who worked with a terrified of water youth and succeeded. Not being a Health Practitioner and never seeing the youth I can not pass judgement on his phobia, I can say the condition has to be permanent because thats what the rules say.

 

 

[Stosh]

Gee Frank17, I wonder what that instructor would have done if the boy had a fear of heights??

 

The fear of water can be overcome, but it takes time if you choose a different route than the instructor in the anecdote.

 

I wasn't all that impressed with water as a kid, but after a few years I went on to be Life-Saving certified.

 

To this day I am not fond of water, I prefer not to go swimming for fun, but if I have to, I can. My one "have to" pilgrimage is down to the waterfront at summer camp to pass the swim test.

 

Water skiing, kayaking, canoeing, boating, sailing, etc. I all do, but I always wear a life-jacket so psychologically I don't have to think about it.

 

Start the boy with a life-jacket and get him used to at least getting close to the water. Every free-climber started out with a belay line.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[Beavah]

Yah, there's an option for a genuine medical condition.

 

Otherwise, there's the option of doing something hard and learnin' to swim.

 

That having been said, I know plenty of boys in Scouting who stayed at Tenderfoot but who had 7 full years of fun and adventure and growth in Scouting. At da risk of Nolesrule comin' after me with a Tomahawk (or whatever those Seminoles down there use ), advancement is only 1/8 of the scouting program. With proper use of the other 7 methods it should never be such a big deal that a lad quits.

 

Or just use Advancement differently, eh? Challenge the lad to get more MBs than any Eagle in your troop has ever gotten, and forget about ranks. Or find somethin' non-water-related (climbing? geocaching? snakes?) that he can really excel at and let that be "his thing."

 

If a boy quits a program just because of advancement, then the program is too focused on that and is not using the other methods well. Fix that, don't try to fudge da requirements.

 

Beavah

 

[BadenP]

Frank, the boy can learn to swim in the shallow end of any pool where all he has to do is stand up and not feel so threatened by the water, this will also help him conquer his fear of the water. This happened with one of my scouts when I was a SM years ago who literally cried if he even got near the pool but he learned and one day on his own swimmed out to the deep end to join the rest of the troop and his fear was gone. Later on he even got the swimming MB and became a BSA Lifeguard, go figure. If you don't push or force him but let him deal with it on his own time and in his own way he may just surprise you.

[Eagle92]

Despite me being a YMCA Lifeguard instructor, I can relate to the scout as I WAS terrified of water. I did drown, had EMS revive me etc, etc. While I like to play in the shallow end, I would not go near the deep end. When the time came to join Boy Scouts, Mom gave me a choice: learn to swim or get out. I had swim lessons that summer after joining and after a summer of swim lessons I was comfortable enough togo in the deep end. And I got a little cocky in regards to swimming b/c I start going through the YMCA levels really fast and caught up with my peers.

 

While I didn't pass the test the next summer in time to take Swimming MB, I did take instructional swim at summer camp and passed the swimmers test by mid week.

 

It can be done, but you need patience and access to a pool. I have worked with kids like me and it can be done.

[Nike]

Is it stirring the pot to point out that an Eagle applicant has to earn Swimming, Hiking, or Cycling MB as one of the required eleven? If swimming isn't important enough to be Eagle required, no, ifs, ands, or buts about it, then why the insistence at 2nd class? Why only pass the swim test once and not for every rank, "Within the last year have demonstrated...."

 

 

Note: I heartily agree that swimming is a vital skill and also worked with several near phobic beginning swimmers back in the day. Some kids will not learn to swim until they are adults and can really will themselves to overcome thier fears.

[Eagle007]

If the kid is that hydrophobic does he take a shower or does he just alcohol wipes? I've seen kids that didn't want to get into the pool or lake but not to the point that they would need to see a psychologist or psychiatrist.

 

Now to lighten the mood a little, I had a mental picture of a kid looking like Pigpen on Charlie Brown.

[nolesrule]

No Beavah, no tomahawks for you. I agree with you.