Conundrum

[oldsm]

I have a dilemma and would like opinions as to how to address it. The matter concerns one of my almost-18 Life Scouts who is about to go for his EBOR, after he finishes the paperwork and we have a "final" SM conference. He's not a "stellar", over-achieving scout - really quite typical.

 

This Scout, who was on a Council camp staff this summer, related to some other staff members that his mother (who was a Troop Committee Member) had been abusing him for years. He claimed physical abuse. The example he cited to staff was that when she dropped him off at camp, he thought he was going to get a hug, but instead received a slap in the face - with her rings turned around so they wouldn't leave marks. The staff, having just been through YP training a few weeks before, reported it up the chain, with the Camp Director reporting it to Council.

 

Council acted swiftly, revoking Mom's membership in BSA within a week of the incident. I heard about it initially from Mom after she received a letter from Council to that effect. She figured that I already knew about it, although she caught be totally by surprise with the matter. I pointed out that the Council likely notified the COR. She rambled on about how the state Department of Children & Families had "cleared" her. She was understandably upset, thought that Council action should have waited pending DCF's investigation. I clarified BSA's position on that. She said she'd been planning to resign anyway since she's going back to school. I spoke with my CC and the COR (who confirmed that he had received the letter), and we agreed to keep Council's action quiet - no need to risk harming Mom's reputation in the community or among her friends and acquaintances, or stirring up a potential hornet's nest in the troop - and I communicated that to Mom. (She is the parent who "wears the pants" in the family, is quite outspoken and direct, and not very subtle in my opinion.) She was concerned that her removal by Council may affect her son's ability to achieve Eagle. I told her that I wasn't going to bring it up, but that the COR and CC would know, and I don't control what they do.

 

Through back channels, I learned later about the incident that triggered the scout's confession. Sources told me that he was not going home on weekends and was looking for alternate places to live after camp. To make a long story short (well, less long), DCF said "no", that he wasn't in imminent danger, that he was being provided for, etc., so he is living at home.

 

I have never discussed the situation directly with the scout, other than asking him how things were going at home. He said "Better. I have more freedom now, like getting to stay up later." This is a lad who had to be in bed by about 10:00, who was not permitted to walk 1/2 block to the meeting place (in a good neighborhood), and who is scheduled to graduate HS 1/2 year early.

 

My back-channel sources are firm in their belief that something was going on, and said that DCF had previous dealings with the family.

 

At a recent Court of Honor, the scout's step-dad (with whom he also lives and whom I respect), tried to let me know that he hopes that "this summer's incident" is brought up at the lad's EBOR. His reasoning is that no action is without its consequence, and the lad needs to learn that now, rather than later. We couldn't really talk with other people around, and it's difficult to reach him without the rest of the family knowing about it and wondering why. As stated before, the only people on the EBOR who would know about it are the COR and the CC (who may not actually sit on the board due to major health problems).

 

It is possible that there is some substance to the scout's accusation, and that Mom and Dad are pulling the wool over my eyes. I do not know either way, probably never will, and am not sure that I want to.

 

* Do I have a SM conference with the scout and, depending upon what he tells me directly, tell him that I can't recommend him for an EBOR? Or tell him that it is likely to come up at his EBOR, and let him know that it might cost him Eagle?

 

* Do I have a word with the COR and suggest that the incident is fair game, as it affects character? According to Mom and step-Dad, this was a case of false accusation.

 

* If it comes up, the "keep it quiet" effort will have been for naught, as the rest of the EBOR will then know about it.

 

* Do I pass him along for his EBOR and say nothing?

 

I really did not want to have to deal with this whole situation, but I probably should. Due to the scout's age (weeks from turning 18), there is no opportunity for denial of Eagle and a re-do after having a chance to improve Scout Spirit, show that he truly lives by the Oath/Law, etc.

 

What would you do?

[oldsm]

Sorry - accidentally posted this in the wrong forum.

Can someone move this to Working With Kids, please?

Thank you!

 

[Edited by oldsm to correct forum name](This message has been edited by oldsm)

[Twocubdad]

The dad thinks the boy lied about the abuse and his way of dealing with it is to dump it on you? He thinks an "appropriate consequence" would be for you to deny him his Eagle?

 

Sheesh! What does that tell you about what's going on in the family?

 

I see no purpose served by sharing this whole thing with the Eagle board. If anything, keep doing what you've been doing. During his conference with you, keep the door open by asking how things are going at home. Let him take it from there, if he wants. Let him know he's always welcome to talk with you and that turning 18 doesn't change that.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

Oldsm, I'm completely befuddled. Why would being a victim of abuse preclude a boy from getting Eagle?

 

Let me tell yeh, childrens' services departments have far from a perfect record in their investigations, eh? Odds are for an older teen they're not goin' to find anything, even if something is going on.

 

Or is it that yeh think the lad has been lying repeatedly about this? That would be pretty unusual. Very, actually.

 

Where are yeh goin' with this?

 

Beavah

[Gary_Miller]

Just because DCF cleared the mother of the incident does not mean that there was not some kind of abuse going on in the boys eyes at least.

 

On the other hand it could be that the YM and his parents are just having teenager almost an adult arguments and while its not right it is normal for youth his age. And you can't cure normal.

 

In ether case I don't think anything warrants not letting the YM proceed with his Advancement to Eagle.

[Penta]

In total agreement with twocub and Beavah.

 

My gut says to ignore everything the stepdad or mom might say on this issue. Keep doing what you're doing, if they try to bring it up to EBOR take the gloves off and drag them through the mud.

 

Kids who lie about abuse don't get that specific, my gut instinct says.

 

Do warn the kid in SMC that Mom and Dad are saying this, though - just in case they try to wreck his EBOR at the EBOR, he'll be prepared.

 

Yes, I am unambiguously on the Scout's side here. He has no way to defend himself except you guys.

[Eagle92]

Saw something similar to this with a YM and his dad. Long story short as soon as he turned 18, he did 2 things; #1 Find a place to live temporarily and #2 enlisted in the USAFR for GI Bill benefits.

 

But how can parents prevent a scout from earning Eagleat his EBOR? Parents are not allowed to sit on the board.

[ScoutNut]

YP issues are supposed to be PRIVATE. It is NOT up to US to investigate, or to judge the boy, or his parents.

 

Children in trouble are told in every program, and booklet, on the subject, that they can trust adults. That they can SAFELY tell an adult what is happening to them, WITHOUT fear of recrimination. What exactly are you trying to prove by spreading this story around, and accusing the boy. Especially when you have no evidence he lied?

 

This has nothing to do with him earning his Eagle.

 

 

 

[evmori]

None of this has anything to do with this Scout earning Eagle.

[UCEagle72]

I concur with the rest - (1) YP issues are private, and (2) this should have absolutely no affect on his EBoR, or his eligibility for Eagle.

[Thomas54]

 

It appears that the scout has no record of criminal misconduct. Or at least this is not the issue. He is a member in good standing with the unit. The incident investigation did not reveal him as lying only that his mother's conduct did not rise to the level of criminal charges.

 

As evmori said, the EBOR is about him not her.

 

She appears to want to even the score. Lovely people.

 

 

[oldsm]

Perhaps the scenario I posted was unclear. Maybe too long. It is a bit convoluted. Whatever. It appears from the comments so far that there is misunderstanding. Let me clarify.

 

First of all, I have known this dad since before his stepson came along. He has always been a "straight shooter". The mom (his 2nd wife and the biological mother of the scout) is always real quick to blame someone else for whatever ill fortune may befall her or her kids. From what she's told me, the kids are never wrong. There is a strong scent of "entitlement". And we all know the old adage that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

 

Twocubdad: I don't see the dad's comments as "dumping" on me. I'm sure that they've had "discussions" about it, and he likely made his comment to me in the hopes that hearing about if from somewhere else might drive home the point. Think about it: how often to our own kids listen to other people better than they listen to us?

 

Beavah: I agree about DCF investigations. No one is saying that being a victim of abuse precludes awarding Eagle. That's quite a leap in reasoning, I think. At any rate, while I want to believe the scout, I can't assume that the parents are lying, either. That's part of the conundrum.

 

Gary_Miller: Your comment illustrates one of the problems with blanket "abuse" laws. By necessity, abuse has to be interpreted. Where is the line between discipline and abuse? Did my parents abuse me because societal norms sanctioned corporal punishment? The same in schools? Were they emotionally abusive because they set limits that I didn't like? How often to kids accuse someone of abuse simply because of anger, knowing full well that the law is on their side?

 

Penta: I disagree about kids who like about abuse not being specific. Kids have powerful imaginations, and as they get older, they get better about keeping track of their stories even to the point of actually believing them. "He has no way to defend himself except you guys." Defend himself against whom?

 

Eagle92: If you read carefully, the dad did NOT state that he didn' want his stepson to earn Eagle - just that the incident was fair game for discussion. Nowhere did I indicate that either of his parents would sit on his EBOR. Of course it's not permitted. It's the COR, who DOES sit on his board, who knows. Also the CC, who in this case might or might not be able to.

 

ScoutNut: I am not investigating. The Mom (the accused) is the one who brought this to my attention. She knew that I would be contacting the COR and the CC, and she also knew how we intended to proceed. As I stated earlier in this post, it is difficult to be sure that the son is being totally honest. Because we don't investigate, I have no proof; however, I do have my suspicions.

 

evmori: In my mind, it does, because knowing the parents the way I do, I think that the potential of a false accusation speaks to character.

 

UCEagle72: This went beyond being a "private" YP issue as soon as mom told me that Council had revoked her membership.

 

Thomas54: Correct - there is no criminal record, and that is not the issue. So why bring it up? If you believe the scout, then Mom is lying. If you believe Mom, the scout is lying. If you believe Council, the scout is right but we're not taking a chance on Mom. If you believe the State, then Mom is right. Let me be clear: Mom is NOT wanting to "even the score". She is concerned that the incident could have a negative impact on the EBOR members. She WANTS him to get Eagle, and has been pushing him hard (maybe too hard). The stepdad did not say he wants Eagle denied - only that it should be a topic for discussion.

 

Was the scout truly a victim? Or is he a perpetrator? WE DON'T KNOW.

 

SUMMARY OF EVENTS (chronologically):

1. Something allegedly happened.

2. Camp reported to Council.

3. Council terminated Mom's membership, sending registered letters to Mom and COR.

4. Council referred to DCF, who investigated and cleared Mom.

5. Mom called me, concerned about how it might impact son's EBOR.

6. I confirmed with COR, CC (Mom was on the Committee).

7. I learned through back channels what the nature of the accusation was. Did not pursue the issue with the scout beyond "how are things at home?"

8. I provided guidance for scout on completing his ESLSP write-up and Eagle Application, at his home with Dad present. No mention of the incident.

9. Dad approached me to offer his opinion that the matter should be fair game for discussion at the EBOR. (This was not a request that Eagle be denied - that would be influenced by the nature of the discussion and the scout's answers to any related questions. The EBOR could well decide that it was insufficient to deny rank.)

 

The questions I asked at the end of my original are the potential directions that things could go. And I am still conflicted.

[Scoutfish]

Not being in Boy Scouts, not having experience in Boy Scouts, or EBOR's..My concern, or rather, interest is in this little point:

 

"Mom is NOT wanting to "even the score". She is concerned that the incident could have a negative impact on the EBOR members. She WANTS him to get Eagle, and has been pushing him hard (maybe too hard). The stepdad did not say he wants Eagle denied - only that it should be a topic for discussion."

 

 

Mom is concerened about the potential impact of having this information could have on the EBOR.....so she decides the best plan of actions is to make sure know?

 

 

Dad doesn't want the Eagle to get denied, so lets bring up ..what basically is a private and/or legal matter now( at least as far as EBOR procedings should be concerend) and talk about it at an event that has no bearing or relation to the incident.

 

Sounds like ..to me - that is...that mom and dad are (wink, wink) trying to be real hush hush about anything that could make Jr look bad. They do not want to tarnish anything concerning Jr's image.

 

Ooops! ( wink wink again) looks like somebody let the cat out of the bag. Oh well, maybe if certain younger aged people - not that we are naming names - should be more discrete about who they may embarass in the future. And after all, this is what it's all about: an embarrassing incident concerning mom, and her status in society!

 

Now, I have no proof whatsoever that this is what is happening. But you know, I cab't prove I am a real live being right now either!

 

 

[Penta]

When you lay it out like that, I see where the situation is way more confusing than I first thought. Hm. I also missed that he was 17/18.

 

My fear is precedent - I don't really think a BOR, particularly an EBOR, is at all the place to bring up something so personal, particularly not to "ambush" the Scout. It also sets a bad precedent in other regards, too. Yes, any abuse situation is pretty much a he said-she said situation almost by definition. But what if the Scout was younger than 17/18? What if he was 12, 13, 14? My fear is that once you set the precedent, it'll be used against younger Scouts, too. In the chance they're *not* lying, what happens? How does the Scout defend themselves, and *their* reputation? Do they? *Can* they, even? Will kids who've been abused now have to worry their bringing accusations against their parents that the parents dispute will be held against them?

 

Those concerns would apply with any BOR. With an EBOR, because you're bringing in "outsiders", my concerns in that area double.

 

My instinct now (with some reflection) is to point this out to step-dad, whom you originally mentioned as wanting it brought up at the EBOR. I wouldn't bring it up at EBOR at all - and I would explain clearly to the Scout's parents why it won't be brought up.

 

Even if they're right and nothing happened, what about the next kid, who may well be telling the truth, but the parents are good enough at fending off DCF?

[Scoutfish]

Since i have had no interaction with this mom, and since I do not know her personaly or even publicly..I am basing my opinion on your post alone.

 

And we know the deal with opinions....

 

So with that, let me continue with my concerns about mom:

 

"She was understandably upset, thought that Council action should have waited pending DCF's investigation. I clarified BSA's position on that. She said she'd been planning to resign anyway since she's going back to school."

 

She is almost dictating how BSA should respond and in a way that suits her.

 

She also has that "you can't fire me..I quit!" one upmanship attitude about her. It's like her "planning" on resigning trumps BSA's decision and therefore, it's like BSA didn't do anything...in her mind.

 

" (She is the parent who "wears the pants" in the family, is quite outspoken and direct, and not very subtle in my opinion.)

 

So mom is usd to making the decisions and is used to getting what she wants?

 

"She was concerned that her removal by Council may affect her son's ability to achieve Eagle. "

 

 

Kinda self centered and self important. She should be of the mindset that nothing about her matters at her son's EBOR This EBOR is about him, not her or what she's doing, what role she serves, who she is friends with, her stle of clothes, etc...

 

"At a recent Court of Honor, the scout's step-dad (with whom he also lives and whom I respect), tried to let me know that he hopes that "this summer's incident" is brought up at the lad's EBOR."

 

Why again?

 

" His reasoning is that no action is without its consequence, and the lad needs to learn that now, rather than later."

 

So, somebody ought to teach the boy not to say he is being abused if he ( even if wrongly ) thinks so?

 

Again, I won't say wether he was/is or wasn't/isn't being abused by mom and possibly dad. I have no idea.

 

But I smell bad apples here. Something isn't right.