Compare Scouting vs Sports ?

[OldGreyEagle]

"The school teams operate differently, since 50 kids will try out for 12 spots on the basketball team, you have to cut."

 

There's the rub, you HAVE to cut kids, in a scout troop, all 50 would be members of the troop and all 50 would have an opportunity to advance as far as they want and to do all the activities they want

 

Only 5 can "play" basketball at a time, all 50 can scout at the same time

 

[qwazse]

Injuries. Sports has a higher rate than scouts.

 

In fact one year a b-ball coach warned some girls to not go on a backpacking trip because he needed their ankles for the game next week. I told them to tell the coach their joints would fare better in 36 hours with me than in 1 hour with him.

 

I do try to make it a "both-and" with the youth, but there are a lot of folks - parents included - who make it an "either-or".

[Eagle1982]

Off subject a bit, and a bit of a soapbox issue with me, but there are so many bad "karotty" schools out there (called McDojo's - google it) be careful. Some warning signs are high testing fees, long contracts, required seminars, black belt clubs, required to buy their gear, lack of realistic contact...

 

Worse than taking your money, many bad schools give a false sense of self confidence. OK, I'll get off the soap box now.

[Eagle92]

'82,

 

Oh yes I looked into it. Unfortunately this place is the cheapest in town. Luckily there is no long term contract, just monthly fee. Can stop at anytime, and come back at anytime.

[83Eagle]

Interesting...never heard of these. While I'm sure there are some shady "schools" out there it seems that most of the complaints come from the purists who don't believe it can be an activity for youth/families.

 

Will my daughter be able to defend herself in a street fight when she earns her black belt? Probably not, but her (and my) view of the program has always been that this is a "sport" that she can do. And it costs $250 to put your kid into Pop Warner football, so it seems in line.

 

So while it's definitely not a McDojo, it's definitely not a purist martial arts program, but then again we don't care and she is happy with it.

[jr56]

The bottom line is sports teams are interested in the very best.

At some point in any athletic career, depending on your level of God given ability, and your desire to develop it, you are going to be told to get lost, you're not good enough.

50 kids may want to be the high school star quarterback, but there can be only 1.

50 kids can join scouting, and all can become Eagle scouts if they have the desire.

You can remain in scouting in some capacity for the rest of your life.

Yes, I have actually had kids ask me what the knots on my uniform were for. When I replied that most of them were for adult awards, the shocked rely was..."I didn't know you could be in scouts as an adult".

[Engineer61]

"You can remain in scouting in some capacity for the rest of your life."

 

The same is true for sports...we're called Coaches, Referees, Umpires, League Board Members....

 

My biggest challenge? Baseball practice ... I hit 100 baseballs and throw 15-20 pitches to each of my 15 players at each practice.

 

Nobody in the big's throws 225-300 pitches in a 2 hour practice.

 

Where's the Motrin!!!!

[Eagle1982]

"While I'm sure there are some shady "schools" out there it seems that most of the complaints come from the purists who don't believe it can be an activity for youth/families.

 

Will my daughter be able to defend herself in a street fight when she earns her black belt? Probably not, but her (and my) view of the program has always been that this is a "sport" that she can do. And it costs $250 to put your kid into Pop Warner football, so it seems in line."

 

Yeah, sorry to come off as a snobby purist. That's cool, as long as you have a clear understanding of what you are getting for your money.

 

I only bring it up because easily 1/3 of my students came from other schools, and they always say, "I wish I knew then what I know now."

[83Eagle]

You did not come off as snobby and I'm sorry if my reply implied that.

 

My point being that we consider TKD a "youth sports" program in our household so are comfortable with that. For our daughter, who is not real athletically inclined, it has given her better coordination and confidence.

 

But seeing the courses, I have no more illusion than she will be able to take on a grown attacker than I do of my son growing up to become an MLB player just because he's in little league now.

[SubSM]

Nine years later:

I was thinking about this subject last weekend watching my niece's boys play a basketball tournament in their hometown. I watched as kids played their best and won some games and lost some games. They were excited to win, but not so happy when they lost. I also watched the parents react (in some cases very obnoxiously) to their kids paticipation. All I could think of was being in the woods trying to build a campfire, with no parents around. Noone to yell at the referee for a bad call; just wet wood, flint and steel. There is an honesty in having wet feet because a scout didn't bring boots for a rainy weekend, that can't be blamed on a third party. There is also compassion when another scout shares their fire to warm up the cold scout.

 

I have heard advertisements over and over about the benefits of youth sports on the radio. How kids learn leadership and teamwork etc. Many of these benefits can be found in scouting. 

Teamwork: Nothing helps build a team than having to get a fire going in order to cook your meal.

Leadership: The scouts are being led by one of their peers. 

Just curious what some of y'alls thoughts are.

Mike 

[mashmaster]

7 minutes ago, SubSM said:

Nine years later:

I was thinking about this subject last weekend watching my niece's boys play a basketball tournament in their hometown. I watched as kids played their best and won some games and lost some games. They were excited to win, but not so happy when they lost. I also watched the parents react (in some cases very obnoxiously) to their kids paticipation. All I could think of was being in the woods trying to build a campfire, with no parents around. Noone to yell at the referee for a bad call; just wet wood, flint and steel. There is an honesty in having wet feet because a scout didn't bring boots for a rainy weekend, that can't be blamed on a third party. There is also compassion when another scout shares their fire to warm up the cold scout.

 

I have heard advertisements over and over about the benefits of youth sports on the radio. How kids learn leadership and teamwork etc. Many of these benefits can be found in scouting. 

Teamwork: Nothing helps build a team than having to get a fire going in order to cook your meal.

Leadership: The scouts are being led by one of their peers. 

Just curious what some of y'alls thoughts are.

Mike 

Both are good for the kids IMHO for similiar reasons, both are bad for similiar reasons too.

Scouting tends to push youth to do things because it is the right thing to do, the work together for common goals, and get personal recognition for hardwork.  Those are some of the positives.  On the negative, many parents are too involved in the youth's advancement and cover up or make up for what the youth don't do.   

I see very similar things in sports.   If they can do both, I recommend it.  Band is another big thing here in Texas that provide youth positives and negatives.  

I see the same reports on statistics about which one is better and it is always the one for the facebook group of that activity.  

[Jameson76]

57 minutes ago, SubSM said:

I have heard advertisements over and over about the benefits of youth sports on the radio. How kids learn leadership and teamwork etc. Many of these benefits can be found in scouting. 

 

Cautious reminder that many of the advertisements on the benefits (and not discounting there are positive aspects) of youth sports are driven in many cases by groups that will benefit financially from youth sports

• Sporting goods stores and manufacturers that sell equipment
• Coaches who are paid and need customers
• Associations that run the "exclusive" tournaments and need the revenue
• Private coaching and instructional academies that need customers
• Groups running sports camps that need attendees
• Parks and rec groups that have fields that see leagues as rental clients

For the "elite" youth athlete I have questioned the wisdom to pay $4k - $6 annually to participate in a sport for 6 - 8 years with hopes/plans of getting a scholarship.  That same money spent could be invested and you could pay for most of college.  If they like a sport, maybe there is a rec program.  Interestingly the participation in Sports has come to define many youth, and I guess their parents.

Not sports bashing in any way.  But I have seen a evolution in the last 40 years from kids playing 3 to 4 sports, having fun, off season, doing random sports things to the drive for 1 sport at 8 or 9, year round, and that's it.  Kids get burned out, injured etc.

Youth need

• family
• sports (organized and just exercise)
• social things (church group, Scouts, youth groups)
• academic (school)
• free time

All of that should part of a balance kid

[fred8033]

I see sports and scouts with similar pros and cons.  The big difference I see is that results in sports is much more visible.  Confidence.  Satisfaction of the parent watching their kid drive kick the ball, hit the ball, pass the ball, etc. 

Scouts is much more subtle.  I often think it's hard for parents to see the benefits.  But when I looked close at my kids after each camp out or event, I always saw a little more maturity or capability or pride.  

My cheap parent view is sports is about more immediate gratification.  Scouts takes a longer time to see.  Not all parents will wait that long.  

[mashmaster]

17 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

My cheap parent view is sports is about more immediate gratification.  Scouts takes a longer time to see.  Not all parents will wait that long.  

Getting an email or call from the principal about how your son was articulate and communicated with eye contact in a meeting with them is priceless.

[NJCubScouter]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

For the "elite" youth athlete I have questioned the wisdom to pay $4k - $6 annually to participate in a sport for 6 - 8 years with hopes/plans of getting a scholarship.

I think that's the answer.  A lot of parents have stars in their eyes.  They look forward to their child getting a free ride on a sports scholarship, turning pro and supporting them in their old age.  The fact that the chances of this happening for any given youth are very, very small does not seem to deter many of them.