SPL reports to committee

[acco40]

The SPL does not report to the committee from a chain of command perspective. The SPL may occasionally report to the committee on various topics.

 

When I was the Scoutmaster, I encouraged the SPL to report the results of our annual planning meeting to the committee. Also, if he had requests for committee support - fundraising ideas, troop equipment to buy requrests, etc. I would sometimes, depending on the Scout, suggest that he make the presentation to the committee. I did not encourage the SPL to have prearranged attendance for any of the committee meetings.

 

Yes, expecting something of an individual that you don't expect of yourself (i.e. wearing one's uniform to a BOR?) is very hypocritical in my eyes. I also noticed that some committee members, who didn't like what they heard from the Scoutmaster would sometimes try to "go around" and ask the SPL. That is a whole different topic.

[Eagledad]

This is kind strange reading. Our committee looks forward to the SPL report because it is one of the few times committee members get to work with him and ask questions. They truly enjoy watching the SPL in action. The SPL is usually first on the agenda so that he can get in and get out in so as not to take much of his personal time. However he is welcome to stay the whole meeting if he wants and some have with the comment following later that the adults run the meeting the same as he is trained to run a PLC meeting. There are few down sides mentioned here, but there are no down sides from our experiences. I have never heard an SPL say they didn't enjoy the opportunity. Its their choice because we know they are busy, but they usually came.

 

Barry

[scouts-a-lot]

My question is what happens if something heated comes up in the meeting? Do you allow the SPL to sit through that and possibly watch something that should never be seen by the Scouts? Do you allow them to be exposed to what can sometimes be the ugly side of Scouting? I am not saying that every meeting is that way but what happens when Bob and John do not agree with each other and tempers flare?

 

The SM is the link to the PLC for the other adults in the unit. Not the SPL. While I see the merit in asking him to speak at the comm meeting I don't see what the SPL can report that the SM cannot.(This message has been edited by scouts-a-lot)

[shortridge]

What possible purpose does a month-old report serve for the committee? Or for anyone? The answer is none.

 

Sounds to me like the CC is insecure and uncomfortable in his ability to lead, and wants to control all the possible variables he can.

[Kudu]

Adult-led much?

 

In a Scout-led Troop, a take-charge SPL will want to attend Committee meetings.

 

The SM should run interference for him if necessary, and they should have a way of communicating during the meeting. It is a little hard for a new SPL to understand that the Committee (including his parents and his friends' parents) should be working for the Patrol Leaders and not the other way around.

 

Remember that Troop Committee involvement in any internal matters, along with Boards of Review, Scoutmaster Conferences, Scout Spirit advancement requirements, POR requirements, regular elections, leadership development, classroom Merit Badges, and Blue Cards were ALL invented by American adults to keep Scouting adult-run.

 

None of that existed in B-P's program in the rest of the world. The Patrol Leaders, not the parents, should run the Troop. One of Baden-Powell's rules was that the Court of Honor (PLC) controls the Troop funds.

 

To understand adult-run just follow the money:

 

234. (ii) The S.M. will, however, delegate as far as possible, to the Court of Honour as in Rule 242 all internal matters of discipline and administration, including the expenditure of Troop funds

 

242. (i) The Court of Honour is a body composed of the Troop Leader [sPL], if any, and the Patrol Leaders; Seconds may also be members, but their presence is not desirable in cases concerning discipline. The Scouters of the Troop, if present, should act in an advisory capacity only.

 

(ii) The Court of Honour deals with internal matters, including the expenditure of Troop funds See:

 

http://inquiry.net/traditional/por/groups.htm

 

For an example of how these Patrol Leaders run a Troop without an adult Committee, see:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/coh_session.htm

 

Yours in Scoutcraft,

 

Kudu

 

[Vicki]

OK, so my initial reading was "why on earth would the SPL attend the committee meetings?" I had never heard of that before. Reading the e-mails, OK, I can see some logic behind it.

 

But, Lisabob, I heartily disagree with the idea of a)making him appear in uniform if none of the adults are in uniform and b) making him submit his report thirty days ahead of time if no one else has to do it. That's just ridiculous. Not to mention that that means he's writing next month's report the day after the meeting? This smacks of adults playing power games with youth who aren't armed for it yet.

 

Not Scoutlike at all to my mind. If the SPL isn't going to be treated as a somewhat peer, then forget it.

 

Vicki

[BrentAllen]

Bad, evil BSA program!! Why, they even corrupted Green Bar Bill! He didn't have the SPL reporting to the Troop Committee. He didn't have the Boards of Review run by the Scouts. BTW, he was Danish - do you lump him in with all the bad "American adults" who ruined B-P's program?(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

[Lisabob]

Vicki - thing is, this particular SPL has enough maturity to know that there is a power game being played - and maybe, not quite enough to know how to play it without being viewed as discourteous. He's quite content to say to the entire group: Here's what your CC wants me to do and here's why I think it is ridiculous and won't do it.

 

Apples don't fall far enough from the tree sometimes ( ) but this doesn't always make for the smoothest course of action.

 

Somebody mentioned in a completely different thread that adult-run tends to work out ok with young kids who don't know the difference and aren't ready to lead anyway, but that it fails with the older crowd of boys who are willing to ask pointed questions and challenge poorly considered "rules." That is what is happening here, in my view.

 

Anyway, thanks all, for your input. It is always useful to see things from several different angles.

[Vicki]

Well, and that's part of the inherent unequal nature of the relationship - a youth cannot play adult power games without appearing discourteous or at least disrespectful. Which is why we have to go out of our way to be mature about it and try not to put youth in these situations - especially intentionally, which is how this looks from my vantage point.

 

Vicki

[IM_Kathy]

ok as a parent of an SPL and a committee member...

 

if an SPL came to a meeting and said "this is what the CC is telling me to do and it's not fair because of X" it would be seen by many to be disrespectful - though it really isn't in the view of the SPL because he's questioning a "rule" that he doesn't believe is a rule or should be a rule. So this isn't something that he should bring up to the committee but rather directly with the CC or SM.

 

my son does attend committee meetings while he's SPL - just as all previous SPL's have. He was told by SM and CC that he does not have to be in uniform if he does not want to and that when he is asked to give a report that they want to know about campouts that are being planned between this meeting and the next, how the campouts went since the last committee meeting, and about other activities going on... and that if he is needing help with anything to let them know. And this they did right after he was elected - even before I was able to let him know. It is what they do with every election... and at their first committee meeting (I've been through 4 SPL's now) the CC starts by welcoming the new SPL and explaining to them again what is done at the committee meeting, who does what for the committee, and to not worry if he's nervous because all the SPL's are their first time. They then ask him if he has something to talk about right away or wants to wait and be the last to report (and all SPL's have waited til the end on their first meeting LOL)

 

now as a committee member - the only time we submit a report prior to a meeting is when we have a lot to report and have it all typed up and email it to the secretary so they won't have to type/write as we are talking.

 

[Vicki]

"if an SPL came to a meeting and said "this is what the CC is telling me to do and it's not fair because of X" it would be seen by many to be disrespectful - though it really isn't in the view of the SPL because he's questioning a "rule" that he doesn't believe is a rule or should be a rule. So this isn't something that he should bring up to the committee but rather directly with the CC or SM. "

 

Exactly, Kathy. That's how the game of adulthood is played.

 

Sounds like your committee is doing it right, for the most part.

 

I think I'm still wary of involving the SPL in committee meetings, but different strokes for different folks.

 

Vicki

 

[IM_Kathy]

thankfully in the few years I've been involved with the troop we have not had any major issues that required committee discussions on discipline and the like that is often talked about on here - when it can't be dealt with solely by the SPL it's all been handled by the SM and ASM.

 

so I would assume that if we had to deal with such a situation we would ask our SPL to report at the next meeting, or we would hold a special meeting just to deal with that issue.

[Eagledad]

>>thankfully in the few years I've been involved with the troop we have not had any major issues that required committee discussions on discipline and the like that is often talked about on here - when it can't be dealt with solely by the SPL it's all been handled by the SM and ASM

[Thomas54]

 

Today's Committees are not the committee's envisioned by the founders or even the one characterized in the current BSA Handbooks. They are not impartial members created by a sub group of the charter organization's leaders. That was the vision that is not the reality. What today's committees are made up of are parents from the unit. Often populated by the ones with the biggest desire to meddle in their kids lives. Ones without scouting and camping experience are drawn to help where they can. Those that want to clear obstacles for their child's success. Those with agendas, not open minds.

 

A committee meeting is just that, an open forum to exchange ideas and to review the business of the troop. Asking an SPL to pre-submit his report to the CC is laughable. The CC must be intimidated by this youth. Holy cow if the CC can't run a meeting and keep it on track even with comments from a fifteen year old boy, by-G** get him the heck out of there. He is incompetent as a meeting chair.

 

Besides your committee sounds like its running too much of the day to day operations of the Troop. Yuk!

 

Sorry I had no advice just comments. But at least I feel better.

 

 

edited for typo's

(This message has been edited by Thomas54)

[frankpalazzi]

I ask the SPL to come to the first committee meeting of the year (August or September) for one and only one reason: to present the initial yearly program to the committee along with the SM. This way the SPL gets to see the adults interacting and discussing the boys' ideas, and even has something to take back to the troop meeting. ("They really liked our idea about a day hike to the top of Mt. Whosiwhatis!!..but they said our November trip needs a little more planning, let's get going on that!"). Helps get the SPL motivated at the beginning of the Scout year. He is not required to attend any more committee meetings after that, or even encouraged, as they can run late sometimes, and in the past, those who attended voluntarily found them "boring". Every month thereafter, the SM reports on the troop, and brings the boys concerns to us.