how would you handle this

[bear dad]

Howdy,

Here is the situation, have a boy in my den. has miised a couple of recent den meeting, other than that, been active. Wife ran into boy at school and he told her that he was thinking about quiting.

Wife called talked to father and he said that son thinks we should have gone camping already or be doing more of it by now. Wife told him that certain things needs to be inplace before we can go, training and such as he is a Bear scout. Dad also thinks since he has not helped in his book, boy may have a lost interest.

 

I have not got to speak to his father yet,are we as adults, leaders sending the wrong message to these boys that soon as they join a cub level, boom camping starts?

Think the boy just generally likes camping, but does not know ALL that goes into going?

Yes we are planning on a Pack campout in near future, once someone has been Baloo trained which I am going next session, still a couple months away,

Try to tell boy to hang in there till end of year when he will be a Webelo then we can camp a lot, but same time, don't to give the boy the ideal if he don't get want he wants, when he wants it,then we bend over backwards just for him.

Think that is what wrong with SOME, STRESS SOME kids today, think they deserve some thing when they have not did anything to EARN IT? Parents are guilty for giving into it just as much.

 

thought scouts teaches them more than just ME, ME, ME.I am proud to say that in our den some boys right off the bat,says good job, we play games and one team loses, or nice try, or claps when someone is getting reconized for something, think that is 1 way WE HELP THE PACK GO!

 

Have any you have the same type problems? polls are now open

[ScoutNut]

If your Pack is telling new Cubs that they will go camping as soon as they sign up, then, yes, your Pack's leaders are sending the wrong message.

 

Your Pack should be honest, and upfront about the Cub Scout program, the Pack's program, and the Pack's needs. Perhaps if you had mentioned to this dad at registration that in order for the Pack to go camping they would need someone to take BALOO training and run/plan the campout, he might have stepped up (with a bit of prodding from his son!).

 

He might still step up. His son is antsy to camp, ask dad to take BALOO training with you.

 

Also, camping is not the only way to get outdoors. Day hikes, with a stop at a picnic fire pit to make s'more's, is a great way to get the boys out. Visit nature centers, state parks and forests, for the day. Go visit an arboretum, conservatory, or botanical garden. Check out programs from any of the above places, museums, zoos, or even local sporting goods stores. Go out and do a kite fly. Participate in a river, or park, cleanup. Go on a horseback ride. Go on a bike hike.

 

Have fun outdoors, and indoors, and the boys will not loose interest.

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Tell the boy that scouting is kinda like video games. You just don't go straight to the finallevel - rather you start at the lowest level and work your way up.

 

Ask him if he ever plaid a flying game where fitrst you had to demonstrate the ability to control your aircraft. Then you had to perform a few manuevers. Then you flew a mission only to identify friend or foe. Then if you continueously pass each of those levels , you get to fly in combat or in this case...camping!

 

That makes sense?

[Beavah]

Yah, I reckon that's what the lad needs... an adult lecture on deferred satisfaction.

 

The boy's givin' you valuable feedback about your program, eh? Don't blame him for being honest with his feedback. He's sayin' its boring and he wants to go camping, and if that keeps up he's goin' to quit. Seems like a reasonable choice on his part.

 

We have to remember that 3 months is forever in the life of a 9-year-old. Would you stick with a club that told you maybe they'd do somethin' you're interested in a year and a half from now? That's what it feels like to the boy, eh?

 

Feedback is a gift. Accept it as such, and treasure it.

 

Beavah

 

[Lisabob]

Find some other things the boys can do in den meetings that might eventually lead up to camping. I don't have the bear book handy but look for any outdoorsy things. Hiking, cooking over a fire, dump cake in a dutch oven, building a fire, do some geo caching/waypoints, go fishing, etc. Team up with a local nature center to do some simple conservation or clean up projects. Just get the kids outside some!

 

There is always the challenge of hanging on to the avid outdoors kids, in a setting where some kids probably don't even own a sleeping bag, let alone have camping experience. It might truly be that cub scouting, or your pack's cub scout program, is not a good fit for this particular boy if what he is looking for is a monthly wilderness camp out. Most cubs do not do a whole lot of camping (some don't do any) and when they do, it is often not terribly rugged style of camping. So do be honest and up front about what you can, and can't do in your program. But also keep looking for other ways to provide fun, new, challenging activities to a wide range of kids. In other words, maybe there are other ways to hook the kid on scouting besides just camping (maybe you need to build in some new challenges by the end of the bear year).

 

 

[bear dad]

ScoutNut,

At no time did the leaders give the boys (especially tigers-bears) the ideal of camping all the time, only will able to go at somepoint, i.e. family camp out times, council camps,etc.

As a brand new pack,don't think all people,especially parents, they don't know the details what training in place before we go.

On the other side to this boy, he has been told by me and others we have a camp out scheduled but there things need to be done first.

 

Guess we could get together "outside of scouts" and just go camping, i.e. pay for everything yourself, drive etc... think boy will make a good BS in future, as he likes the outside alot.

 

 

Beavah,

 

I do welcome boy expressing himself, however if he been told that we can't just go without having things in place, what should we do bend the rules just for him?

I am gung ho about going camping, would like to take the boys right now, but I know to take bears it needs to be a family camp out. have other boys like the ideal but they understand certain things have to be done first.

 

Also would like to take note that boy is not working on his book. We do some fun stuff at den meetings, and we are planning on a hike in next couple weeks, soon as we can get parents info and weather is okay.

 

let me add this, if all parents/boys were upset about not doing this or that, why are they complaining in first place as over half are not paying dues or late, or have even have paid there recharter fees yet? This is another reason some things have not been done yet.

 

By the scout words upset about not going camping, is "Helping the Pack GO"?

[Basementdweller]

Get that kid outdoors STAT. You have a very narrow window of opportunity to recapture him.

 

Things need to be in place????????? just do it man.

 

I am not telling you to go camp, But what is available in your area????

 

Hikes, quick easy and it can be a family event. Have them pack a lunch and bam instant achievement completion.

 

Take them fishing??? Creekin?????? Zoo????? Park with a Naturalist.

 

Going and sitting in a meeting every week is BORING.

 

 

do you play games at the meeting?????? My favorite as a reward for knot tying is a game I call Kangaroo stomp. After 10 minutes of tying knots and very one completes what we are doing. The boys take their rope and tuck it the back of their pants so it hangs to the floor like a kangaroo tail. Then when you say go they stomp on each others tails till trying to pull them out. Last one standing wins..... Guess what it is loud, fast and they love it.

 

My goal on outings it to make sure they are dirty and exhausted when we get back to the cars.

[Scoutfish]

 

 

I think I might just print that out and tape it to every scoutbook, manual, notebook ad bag I have.

I might print it out for every parent too!

 

That is gonna be my new ....what do you call it?...motivational poster? Something like that! LOL!

 

[bear dad]

Basement dweller,

 

yes we play lots of games, even parents are getting in on it, and all boys are laughing.

 

We make a lot things, crafts, they get to use drills, tools, so they are doing things,

We have a hike planned, but weather is not good, ice on roads coming preventing us to do it this week. I plan taking them out for a boat ride since I own one,

 

I did talk to boys father, and he said that boy had some different thoughts as what it should be like. Meaning when the man came to school he was talking about cool things they did, like bb guns,archery. he got the notion that is what did at den meetings.

Told father lot these things get done at camps and such. Boy also not really wants to be in scouts, dad is making him, so really it comes down to if he don't want to be in it, no matter what cools things we do, he won't be happy?

[Lisabob]

bear dad, what sort of location do you hold your den meetings at? I understand icy roads etc (heck I live in the north) but there can still be ways to get outdoors without risking life and limb.

 

But yeah, if the kid really and truly doesn't want to be in scouting, dad will only be able to keep him in for so long.

[Beavah]

if he been told that we can't just go without having things in place, what should we do bend the rules just for him?

 

Only if you want to keep him and his friends in da pack.

 

Now others will think I'm committing heresy, but your unit's program should not be held hostage by the district or council training calendar. If it's really going to be four months before they offer Baloo (four months on top of the 5 past months), then you

 

1) Borrow a Baloo trained person from another unit or from the district, or

 

2) Call up your district training chair and say you want the trainin' team to come out and deliver the training to your unit this month.

 

The sole reason for the district/council's existence is to support your unit program. They work for you, eh? You shouldn't be waitin' around for them. And if they won't live up to their end of the bargain, read the Baloo materials yourself and schedule a campout at your council's facilities. Then you're covered as to site, and the ranger is available for other support. Your council even has some volunteer range masters who can open up the camp BB gun range.

 

Like Lisabob, I'm a northerner, and icy roads are just a part of life. I understand that some of da more southerly folks get all freaked out by an inch of snow and such. But roads are only bad for 6-12 hours after a storm. Just delay or go on a day trip. If the highways are bad, go for a local hike to the sledding hill with a bunch of hot cocoa.

 

If yeh really want to do this, there are all kinds of ways of makin' it happen. If yeh don't really want to do this and are lookin' for excuses to delay, then yeh need to be honest with the lad so he can go find something better to do with his time. Just please don't turn him off from Scouting for good.

 

Beavah

 

[bear dad]

Okay got to talk to boys father last night, this what he had to say.

He said boy for lead to believe that he could things like camping, bb guns ect.. when the man now a former DE when he came to a round up at school, I was not there when this took place.

Told father yes boys can do these thing but a lot what the man was refering to was at camps and such.

Let me be clear about this, we as a pack have not a lot of help getting our pack going, council lost over half of our appilications making everyone fill new ones. They have not offered a lot of support us as far as relaying info, training etc..

I HAVE found out a lot of this info on my own, so I have tried to help myself as well as our pack finding out things. Don't think anyone has put forth the effort to try find out or even wants too.

 

Back to boy, told father we are planning to go a do some things and also said that if just the 2 can take our sons and go, just a couple of friends together.Wait and see how that goes, still if boy does not to be in scouts no matter what you do he won't be happy enough.

 

As to where we have den meetings, have them at my house. lot of times we are outside using tools , playing games.ONLY TIME I have them inside is if rainning or bad weather.

Talked to a father last night dropped off te boys fees we talked for a 1hr, he said his boy is having fun, loves working with tools.

Told him what we are planning and he has offered to help as he has acess to shop we take boys let use sanders and such, also told we are planning on these things as well.He likes what I am trying and the effort that is being into it.

 

Beavah,

Guess you more exeperience than me, as I did not I could take training on my such as Baloo. Let me ask you this, is there any thing in rules that says that I can not have boys shoot a bow and arrow and one our den meetings?

I have plans for two hikes within the month and some other things as well so hopefully the den will get better and boys will still have fun.

Thanks for the suggestions, please keep in mind not everyone has same amount of knowledge about scouts, thanks

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

Cub Scout Shooting Sports

 

Shooting sports provide fun and adventure for boys. Archery and BB gun shooting teach skills, discipline, self-reliance, sportsmanship, and conservation, all of which are elements of good character valued by Scouters.

 

Archery and BB-gun shooting are restricted to day camps, Cub Scout/Webelos Scout resident camps, council-managed family camping programs, or council activities where there are properly trained supervisors and all standards for BSA shooting sports are enforced. Archery and BB-gun shooting are not to be done at the den or pack level.

 

Archery and BB gun shooting belt loops and pins may be earned only at the camps and activities listed above. These programs are designed to emphasize safety and marksmanship development under the direction of trained range officers using nationally approved instructional methods.

 

Reference

 

* Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting, No. 13-550

[Lisabob]

bear dad,

 

I want to thank you for putting in all the time you have, to get the program up and running for your den and pack. It isn't easy under the best circumstances and can be darn hard when you get little to no support from the council folks.

 

Couple of thoughts:

 

1) There are a ton of people on this forum with a lot of scouting experience, who are willing to be resources to you. Ask a lot of questions and you'll get a lot of answers here (and opinions, some of which you might like better than others, but hey - that's just how it is)

 

2) You might get more cub-specific help by posting in the Cub Scouts forum.

 

3) If you are not already going to your district round table (monthly leader meetings for folks from all different packs and troops in the district), you might want to go to the next one. It is a good way to get to know folks in your area who have a lot of knowledge about the way your district operates. If nothing else, you'll get connected to some committed scout leaders who can be good local resources to you.

 

4) THere are some online trainings available for cub leaders. Have you done any of those already? If not, I'm sure somebody here can provide the link to those for you.

[Basementdweller]

If the boys is doesn't want to be in scouting don't waste a bunch effort chasing him. Just continue your plan and take pictures and sent them too him.

 

I have wasted too much time chasing boys who I THOUGHT needed and deserved scouting. I have come to the conclusion that the time is better spent on the boys who want to be in scouting.

 

as posted earlier they spend all day as school being lectured, they need scouting to be fun