Splitting Dens into More Dens

[Scoutfish]

First let me say this: We are not splitting a den mid year. I cannot imagine anything good would come of it. This is something we are going to do at the beginning of the next fiscal year.

 

Okay, Our Bear den has between 23 - 25 Bears on any given night, depending who shows or not. Yeah, this is way to many, but my pack had problems with parents voluntering or stepping up as Den Leaders.

 

So This year, I as well as another active parent became ADL in our den. Our CM ACM, and the DL asked me about being a Webelos Leader next year. We talked about splitting our group of 25 boys into at least two dens of 12 and 13 at the very least, but would actually like to make them 3 dens of 8,8, and 9 respectively. We are considering the possibility of 4 dens depending if Scout Roundup brings in more boys.

 

The CM, ACM and my son's DL asked me to be a leader, and though I can't swear on it, I think the other ADL will be a leader too.

 

Now, that's as far as we have talked so far.

 

At this point, it's JUST ME thinking.

 

How would you break up a den? In theory, I'd think you would want an equal mix of boys in each den. The good ones, the bad ones,the shy ones , the ones who find things easy, as well as the hyperactive bouncing off the wall ones. Hopefully, the stronger of the Webelos could help the weaker ones . Maybe a "showing by example" kinda thing.

 

BUT... I also wouldn't want some very good Scouts slowed down or held back by another scout. And by that, I don't mean badges or Arrow Points, I mean things like Webelos appropriate hikes or even something like a flag ceremony. If one kid needs extra time ( which I absolutely don't mind at all), I'd hate for another kid to just be standing around.

 

Of course, that's also part of the promise of helping the pack too.

 

Okay, I'm not a Webelos leader yet, It's half a year away. But I try to plan ahead , at least to the point that I and the Webelos won't be standing around because I have no clue. You know what I mean? You don't wait to plan and pack for your hike the morning of the hike...you plan and pack ahead of time.

 

I also know that every kid is different and not every kid will get AoL or be an Eagle one day. Some will prosper and same may already be counting the days until they can drop out. That's life!

 

So I guess my question is this:

 

How and why did you split/divide your den(s) the way you did?

[AlFansome]

 

Great questions...

 

My thoughts:

 

Keep your eye on the prize. Cub Scouts is about FUN, not about advancement, speed, or whatever. In fact, there are no "good" or "bad" scouts or "slow" or "fast" ones. They are who they are and as long as they are having fun in their den and have good leaders to guide them on their way, that's all that matters.

 

Now, how can you help them to have fun? Let the boys group themselves together with their buddies and then form dens based on those groupings. Boys will have alot more fun if they are with their buddies than if some adult arbitrarily assigns them to dens.

 

Once you get the groups of 3 or 4 buddies from the boys, then you can start taking care of the considerations you mentioned. Which groups have parents who are leaders or are involved? Which groups won't work well or mesh with which other groups? Which groups (if put together) would overwhelm a den leader? Which groups would perfer to meet on Tuesday vs. Wednesday vs. Thursday? Based on these questions, combine the groups into dens.

 

That way the boys are happy, the dens are functional, and hopefully the split won't be that big a deal (hopefully!)

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

LOL! My son is a very smart, very good kid. So is the DL's son, So is one other parents son.

 

But put them 3 together...

Well, I'll call my son Gasoline, call the Dl's son Matches, and the active parent's son Paper!

 

You get my point? Each on his own is greatm, but together,m they can be disruptive.Yet..they love to hang out with each other,. All about Star Wars and G.I.Joe.

I get what you mean, but the buddies side of it isn't so good with about half of then.

 

But I also understand that we can't "make" the friends either.

[Oak Tree]

We never let an individual den get bigger than 13. One time we split one den, we had the two den leaders sit down and divvy up the kids. They worked it out ok. Primarily they appeared to focus on giving each den an equal number of the more challenging kids - there wasn't too much debate on the rest.

 

Another time we split one with essentially all the longer-tenure kids staying in one den, and all the newer kids splitting off to form their own den.

 

Depending on friendships, and amount of parental involvement, this is a process that could possibly cause some issues. And the bigger deal you make out of the split, the more possible "helpful input" you might get.

 

I had thought about what I'd do if we had to split a den and no other den leader could be found. I think I would have put the kids (of all the non-volunteers) into a hat, and drawn them out randomly and assigned them to dens. And in the worst case, if a den has no den leader step forward, then the den disbands. It doesn't even have to be a random selection, depending on a variety of factors. My pack has never disbanded a den, but I do know a CM that did have to do that. Sometimes that has to be the threat (even if it's just implied, initially). If people know that there is a backup option (i.e., that good old Joe will let us stay in his den if none of us volunteer), they are that much less likely to step forward.

 

In your case, I would definitely go with three dens given the numbers that you have right now.

[Eagledad]

One year we had 20 tigers that were very good friends. We decided to break them up into two dens because that was theoretically the right thing to do. My son was in that group. They hated it and reminded me about it over and over for the next two years. Well come their Webelos year, I retired as the CM, combined both dens and became their Webelos leader. I felt it was the least I could do since they put up with the split for two years. Everyone was happy again except me because at that time 16 boys was a lot to plan for. I was also a very active ASM of a fairly young troop at the time. So what I did was break them up into two groups during many of the activities. We met as one group, did the opening and things like that, then they broke into two manageable groups for the activities. It worked out real well because we always worked on two different activities at the same time. Each group would work on one activity for about 20 minutes, then switch. The boys never got bored because they were moving all the time. I recruited two full time assistant leaders who manage the meetings and we "Required" at least two parents to help plan and run the activities. The parent actually enjoyed it because with as many boys as we had, they only had to plan and run one activity a year.

 

I think how you split (or not) scouts has a lot to do with the personalities of the boys and their parents, but it can be done so that it doesnt overwhelm the leaders. I wish you luck, but if you do it right, it will be a lot of fun for everyone.

 

Barry

 

[jeff-o]

If it were me, I'd plan for 4 dens right now. Sure, the best laid plans may fall apart before next year, but I'd try to get there now.

 

And yes, in a group that size, not every cub will know every other one. So there's bound to be natural groups. Let them form and go with that. If you're worried too much about peer pressure, just have each cub write down on paper two or three they'd like to be with in a den, and take it away.

 

As for the gas, matches, and paper -- just bring along a fire extinguisher, and you'll be fine!

[acco40]

Ideally, dens should max out at 8. The usual reason for big dens is a lack of den leaders. One way to solve the problem is to let the den leader (the one who has the gumption to volunteer) determine the den size and the members! If the others don't like it, let them step up. Tough love in action!

[trainerlady]

How about a different twist on this situation. You have a good sized "troop" of soon to be BS here. Why not start them on their road to BS by breaking them into patrols and having the patrols assigned to an ADL with the DL acting as a "SM". Each patrol can have a patrol leader/denner. Make each patrol responsible for a different part of the meeting each week (opening, closing, snack, etc).

 

The patrols can decide what they want to do to complete a particular activity pin while working with their ADL. As leaders you decide on which pin you'll do this month and next (plan your year as you normaly would - you are doing a yearly outlines right?) Then come up with 2-3 options that would fulfill each part of the badge. Toss it up for a patrol election and go with it. The Eagles do option A and the Cobras and Foxes do option B . This is how a BS troop works.

 

Gradually back away from the planning and let the boys have more say in what, when and where. In a year you'll have a great bunch of BS ready scouts. Teach them to be boy led and let them fail with a safety net. You should an awesome transition rate. The couple of big packs in my area that use this idea have near 100% transition and near 100% retention 2-4 years into BS.

 

Just a thought. Everyone can be with their friends, no hard feelings, no need to rustle up another half dozen adults to serve as DLs and ADLs.

[IM_Kathy]

unless you are a pack that has all their dens meeting at the same time and same place I would suggest having each new DL pick the day, time, location that works best for them

 

then without parents knowing which den is which, have them write down their preference 1-3(or 4) of what best fits their schedule. And also have a spot that they could write in if their son would prefer to be in a den with 1 other who would it be. Some times parents car pool to and from these things and they may not care what day/time but needs to be with Johny because he rides with him.