Youth Protection Issue or Over-reaction?

[DancesWithSpreadsheets]

No not at all, I'm sorry if I gave that impression. My point (if I have one) is that avoiding one-on-one contact will only protect a scouter if he or she can produce at least one witness, youth or adult, that can say, with some degree of certainty and credibility, that the Scouter was never alone with the accuser, and did not engage in inappropriate conduct.

 

Under the circumstances described in the original post, I don't see how the ASM could do that.

 

DWS

[Twocubdad]

If I have to operate that defensively, I may as well stay home. If I follow procedure and hold SM conferences privately, but in plain view, how do I defend myself from an accusation that I propositioned the Scout? Shouldn't I have someone listening just in case. If I'm having a public/private meeting, do I have to have a designated witness who sits across the room watching? There may be 40 people in the main room, but if no one is specifically watching..... Maybe we should go with video cameras.

 

If that is the mindset, then whoever said this will be the end of Scouting is right. Awhile back someone -- maybe Eagle92 -- wrote about a female Scouter who was removed from the program because a Scout accused her of getting up during the night and making inaproppriate advances toward him. How do you disprove that? Do we need someone staying up all night to testify that all the adults slept through the night and didn't assault any youth. And of course we need someone to watch the adult watching the adult.

 

Fold the tents guys, we're done.

 

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[evmori]

You are so right Barry! There is no way to stop anyone from accusing us of anything except our character. If that is beyond reproach then accuse away!

[Twocubdad]

Has anyone read DEW's original post? kbandit is the only one who's coming close to the real issue.

 

You guys are reading a whole bunch into some very sparse facts. Where is there any indication that his guys has done ANYTHING wrong, either program-wise or YP-wise? If you want to leap to conclusion, let's ponder the info that the ASM crossed over in February but the troop is only three months old. Add that DEW and the ASM have butted heads over some pretty silly stuff. Even DEW admits he may have a bias towards this guy.

 

If you want to making assumptions, a good one would be that this is a brand new unit and there is some wrangling between the alpha-dogs to see who's first in line. "Who's in Charge" is the underlying problem here; youth protection and program issues are just the topics of the day.

 

DEW, you need help dealing with this guy. Let your committee chairman or another ASM work with him. Chances are he:

1) doesn't see a problems at all, he's just a confrontational, type-A guy;

2) sees this as a personal thing between the two of you;

3) thinks you're a pompous jerk who likes to throw his weight around; or

4) doesn't understand the relationship between the SM and an ASM.

 

In the first three situations you're not going to win with this guy. Let someone else diffuse the situation. And even if it is the fourth situation, given your history with the guy a third party is going to have a better chance of a positive resolution.

 

As for the mine trip, I think you need to put it behind you. I agree with the other leader on the trip and see no YP issue here. Given the situation in your community, how do you think the ASM fellow will respond to being accused of being in an inappropriate situation with a Scout? That could go very badly. And if your intent was for the boys to spend their spare together as a patrol, you should have said so. Instead they were given several options of what they could have done.

 

The way to have handled that situation with the solo Scout and ASM would have been to approach the SCOUT, and say, "Hey, Billy, the rest of your patrol is outside thowing horseshoes, why don't you go hang with them." When Billy leaves, you turn to the ASM and say, "sometimes these little guys can be clingy. I always try to encourage them to hang with their patrols when I can. So who do you like in the World Series?"

 

You have to train ASMs the same way you train the Scouts -- one little nudge at a time. And always praise in public, critique in private.

[dewASM]

Thanks everyone for the interesting insights.

 

Hey Twocubdad I had to chuckle that you admonished me to "And always praise in public, critique in private"

I have! Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the ASM. In the bacon 'incident', we were at a parent's meeting discussing breakfast at camp. I offered to send pre-cooked bacon to augment the food provided by camp. Pre-cooked to ease the refrigeration issue at camp in July. The ASM made a scene about preserved foods. I explained my reasoning and he still objected. I then offered to let him do something else if he wanted but he didn't. Later the same evening he called to ask what pre-cooked bacon was as he didn't know! By the way he ate heartily from the pre-cooked bacon. In the same way, at recent meeting I was giving a "shout out" to people for things done well at the last campout (everyone gets a mention) and the ASM interrupted to chastise me for forgetting another Scout had also done some clean up. I had praised this Scout for something else but not this because he abandoned the task before completing it. Interestingly, the Scout piped up at the meeting that he had left to play ball and thus couldn't take credit.

 

And FYI, I wasn't going to accuse him of anything. We need to have a talk (at least in my opinion) to clear the air. I will bring up the need for the Scouts to be with Scouts I did not demand this at the mine because truthfully it never occurred to me that the Scouts would choose to be with an adult over their friends. Once the Scout announced he was going off with the ASM, I didn't want to cause an uproar by saying no. But it bothered me. It just felt odd. I came here looking for input as to whether or not to mention it - not accuse or insinuate bad behavior but just say that it seemed to be a potential YP issue.

 

It's funny when you have been closely involved in a case where someone is accused of abusing children you second guess that you should have spotted this or acted on a feeling of unease. You ask yourself should I have been more vocal, asked more questions, been more suspicious. The man arrested in our community was my parish priest and the committee chair of our scout troop. Two of the boys involved in the case are in my troop. (The alleged abuse occurred outside Scouting) My son, thankfully, was not a victim but as a scout and altar boy could have been. I guess that is the reason that I didn't just dismiss the vague feeling that something was off but looked for more input.

 

Thanks again everyone. I have read each reply and will take it all under advisement.

 

 

[lrsap]

"I had praised this Scout for something else but not this because he abandoned the task before completing it. Interestingly, the Scout piped up at the meeting that he had left to play ball and thus couldn't take credit. "

 

I know it's a bit off the topic, but it was my favorite part of this entire thread. Even if the ASM is a problem, from this you get the idea that the boys are all right.