Commitment.

[Eamonn]

One of the bigger problems we have with the Ship is Scouts backing out of things at the last minute.

They don't seem to care or worry that at times they are hurt financially, losing deposits or even the full cost of whatever the cost was.

It doesn't seem to matter that whatever they have backed out of, was their idea in the first place!

I know and am aware of how very busy some of these kids are, but at times it seems they are happy to go with whatever the last offer they received was.

I'm not talking about someone becoming ill or having what I'd call a reason. Most times they back out for silly reasons. - "My sister's best friend aunt is having a party!"

Occassionaly this not attending something they have said that would attend is coupled with "Going missing". It's like they fall of the surface of the earth. Emails and phone calls are not returned. But a few days after the event? As if by magic they are back.

 

Lord knows when I was their age I was every bit as bad as they are! But I don't ever remember doing this sort of thing.

When I mention what is happening to the parents. They seem to just smile, cast their eyes to the Heavens and without saying a word, let me know that they have given up and this is what it is.

Eamonn.

[eghiglie]

I have seen the same exact things occur on a regular basis. I get the same roll of the eyes.

 

My only guess is that other things are a higher priority to them and blowing off a commitment made seems to be a family trait.

 

Even with all the new communication gadgets such as texting and cell phones the calls go unanswered.

 

I have one family that insists the boy must play flag football so he gets a scholarship to college. Go figure!

 

 

[highcountry]

There is comfort in knowing you are not alone, I have this all the time but it is not quite as bad as it used to be. Being SM for 3 years now the scouts and parents know what the expectations are, in addition we have created some rules and implemented them. Some folks never learn though. Some things helped, others didn't work.

 

I too am amazed at the parents who have given up on this battle, people's attention spans are short and with many, it is apparent they will change their minds and do something else when something "better" appears on the radar screen. I have tried to illustrate to parents we are trying to teach the scouts the value of commitment and communication vs the latest gratest flavor, courtesy and the value of planning (Actually writing things on a calendar is a foriegn concept to many) and being mature enough to say no to a later, funner opportunity than what they originally committed to.

 

We have a troop policy that if one does not make a campout they signed up for without giving 5 days prior notice, they will be charged for the full cost of the event. Un avoidable circumstances are of course exempt. The scouts that fail to show, or we find out 2 days beore that they chose to go dirt biking or whatever with buddies are charged....period. That has helped a little.

 

We tried custom made permission slips but that did not work. Our slips were a 2 part deal, we were to get back a signed copy so we had confirmation the parent knows about what their son signed up for and they are clear on it. The family keeps the other half as it serves as a reminder of the event and provides the name and number of the lead adult on the activity to contact in case something happens or they have questions. This was aimed at fixing the problem of "Oh we forgot" as I mentioned the art of making notes on a calendar seems to be a forgotten art. It also is aimed at fixing the old defualt of everyone calling the SM for every change, question etc. Despite constant reminders we only got one quarter to one third of the slips back, chose that it is not a battel we wanted to fight any longer and dropped it.

 

I have a scout or two that have had several trips debited off theri accounts when they failed to show or cancelled out last minute for a non essential alternate activity that came up. They ahve or are in teh process of dropping out of scouts, having had theri fun with camping and now moving into new interests in the later teenage years...that's life. We have gotten many parents and otherwise caring scouts to think and chang etheir attitudes a bit though. I think this is another symptom of the times we live in and it is sad.

 

 

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Our rule is that once the grubmaster buys the groceries, you're on your hook regardless of the reason. If you drop dead, we're going to charge your estate. The GM has put out the money and you need to pay your share.

 

No one ever really cares about the money. We've had boys crossover into the troop, pay dues and never show up for a single meeting (I've always said that means our dues are to low). We had several boys walk away from hundreds of dollars for our last trip to Philmont. The money doesn't seem to mean much, but apparently neither does the time and effort the leaders -- both youth and adult -- put into the event.

 

I've got a second year kid in the troop who's an incredible mama's boy. I can't remember the last time he went on a campout, although his older brother is fairly active. Last night we were going through the sign-up sheet for next month's backpacking trip and -- I'm SHOCKED -- he's not going. I made a point of asking him why not and he said "he has something to do." We'll heck, I have somenting to do, including going on the campout.

 

 

[scoutldr]

"We had several boys walk away from hundreds of dollars for our last trip to Philmont"

 

Probably because they had no "skin" in the game, as was noted before...Mom or Dad probably paid it. Easy come, easy go. Doesn't affect their life because there are no consequences. Discourteous to others? So what? Who cares?

 

We are seeing the rising epidemic of narcissism. Just read an article about that on a Psych website.

[eghiglie]

If narcissism had been prevalent in the late 1700's the US most likely would not exist.

 

There must be some way to instill a sense of responsibility in the kids. My son tells me that school does this, but kids don't expect scouts to be like school. I agree and we try to do fun stuff.

 

Scouts is fun with a purpose to teach leadership skills while they are younger.

 

I know scouting membership is way down from the 60's and perhaps the various movements that occurred in that era have made people less involved or committed.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

That's a dadgum good point.

 

The football coach or band director says practice is mandatory and if you don't practice you don't play. But with Scouts it's "aw shucks, ya'll just show up when you can." Afterall, it's a self-paced program and we're darn glad to have you for what ever little time you decide to give us.

 

Does that really do our Scouts a favor?

[highcountry]

"Skin in the Game"......I hear that one. We have about given up on getting kids to fund raise, folks get tired of tying to motivate kids and families to do this, we have tried all kinds of methods and coaching and motivation and different fund raisers, have begged the scouts to come up with new ideas that ar workable for fund raising and other than a few exeptions nothing happens. I can't make roundtable (I have Fire Dept Trainings on RT nights so my CC and Treasurer attend) and they are hearing that it is becoming more common for troops to toss in the towel on most of fund raising and just have the parents write a check. I find this sad as to me it is important to teach boys to plan, set goals, work hard and begin to learn to to make it on their own steam, and yes, the decisions they make may be different if they have some skin in the game. In general, kids are mostly more self centered today and if they are not interested in something, they just won't do it, the parents quit the battle long ago and no longer have expectations on the boys, they have pulled back to the "this is the way it is and I can't change it" mentality. They write the check. It is impossible for us as Scout leaders to effect much change on these boys if the parent won't stand tough and put an aend to this type mentality at home. In the end, should we make a stand and say....."you won't go on campouts unles you the scout earned the money" we will end up with a lot of cancelled campouts and after which, a lot of dropped memberships from kids who are bored. The eventual death of the troop would problably take about 2 years.

So in the end we encourage participation on the fundraisers we do and we are looking at cool neat ideas to fund raise but mostly we hit the parents up for checks to keep their kids account in the black and keep the activities and the fun happening.

 

[Eagle92]

In reference to fundraising, one fo the problems I'm hearing is that the school PTOs in my area have already started their candy sales, and the various band programs are do their att he same time. let's not forget Trails End goinon now too.

[BadenP]

Eamonn

In the fast paced twitter and texting world of todays teens one thing that has suffered is their attention span which is down to about 10 minutes tops. Their feelings of commitment are also about the same length of time. Unfortunately scouting takes a longer term of commitment by both the teens and adults in order for program to be successful, which is in sharp contrast to their own reality. I think the question then becomes, with this ever growing problem, is do we adapt scouting to this new reality or do we force the teens to adapt their own reality to commit to scouting?

[shortridge]

Sorry, but I don't buy that attention-span argument.

 

These same kids who flake out at a Scout meeting in the church basement or get bored sitting at a picnic table learning knots will spend hours playing football, or in the baseball batting cage, or working on building a Web site, or playing video games, or building models, or reading books, or skateboarding, or chasing girls, or cruising around town once they get their licenses, or rebuilding a car engine, or taking flying lessons. The more academically focused will spend hours practicing and studying for the SAT, doing homework for AP courses or working on extra-credit projects.

 

They will commit to something if they see the value in it to them, if they are invested in it, if it's in their face every day and - yes - if it's interesting enough to hold their attention.

 

I think the in-your-face element of that is one of the most important. Look at the kids - and parents, heck! - who naively believe they can win a baseball scholarship and get a slot in the majors. They commit to hours and hours of practice, hundreds of dollars in gear, grueling games and practices and getting yelled at by coaches for an ephemeral dream. Baseball is in their face every day, and it's become part of society.

 

Imagine if Scouting were on prime-time TV every day, if Scouts got big bucks for endorsing sodas and shoes, if newscasts and newspapers devoted minutes and pages to covering Scouting, if the adventures and heroism of Scouts were promoted through the culture non-stop. What kind of an impact do you think that might have on the commitment of our youth?

 

The good news is that there are ways you can do that on the local level. It just takes some creativity and hard work.

[BadenP]

Maybe you don't buy the attention span argument but recent studies done by educational and teachers groups have come up with it becoming a major problem in trying to teach the youth of today, and they are the experts. Your greed theory about youth interested in sports as a motivating factor is a little outdated, except maybe in poor inner city areas.

[shortridge]

BadenP,

 

I live in a very rural area, and I see the sports issue every year.

 

Teaching youth is one thing. Getting them to commit to a long-term goal, project, cause or trek is entirely another, IMHO.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Twocubdad]

Define your terms. You guys are arguing two different things. Attention span is the length of time one can focus on one specific thing. We are training a whole generation to have a very short attention span.

 

Look at the pacing of movies now vs. some of the oldies. Current movies, expecially action movies, the scene cuts every second or two. At a movie night a couple years ago, the one movie the adults were allowed to pick was Cool Hand Luke. We thought it was a fun guy flick none of the kids had seen. Most walked out. The scene where Luke's mother comes to the prison in the back of the truck (which explains why Luke does what he does) was too long for them. They never got to the egg eating scene, Lucille, or the card game. They weren't willing to invest a few minutes listening to a little dialog in order to get to the fun stuff.

 

Long term commitment is different. You can have the attention span of a gnat and still make a commitment to something.

[Lisabob]

I had this very conversation with somebody the other day, but let me put a different twist on it.

 

 

Yes, sometimes, kids are thoughtless, self-absorbed, poor communicators who are all too willing to waste other people's resources. On the other hand, sometimes they back out of things because there's an underlying problem. For example maybe somebody else (maybe one or more of the adults) has taken over in ways they neither like nor can effectively resist, and they no longer feel any ownership of what they started out to do or desire to participate in what the event has become. If it is happening a lot, it might be worth taking a step back to consider both possibilities, rather than just complaining about "kids these days..."