Handling poor election results

[BrentAllen]

BS,

I know this is after the fact, but may help for next time. The night of our recent elections, I addressed the boys about the election. I explained that their voting for officers was very similar to the nation electing a president, senators and representatives, that they needed to take the process very seriously. We use ballots and a ballot box to enhance the message. I also reminded those interested in running that there was a lot of work involved in being an officer - attending PLC meetings, arriving early, leaving late, attending all campouts and meetings. This tends to discourage any irresponsible Scouts who are just looking to have their egos boosted by getting elected (luckily, we don't seem to have many of those in our Troop at this time). Then, let the candidates have their two minutes and vote.

 

Side note - gwd, you must have thicker skin than me. I've yet to receive a scathing phone call or conversation, but if I did, it would be the last. After hopefully resolving the conflict, I would let that mom know that if she ever treated me like that again, her son would be looking for a new Troop. Now, if I screwed up and deserved it, that would be a different story. It certainly doesn't sound like you screwed up or deserved it. I hope that mom quickly learns how important you are to her son and his Troop.

[Beavah]

We use ballots and a ballot box to enhance the message.

 

Yah, I like this idea, eh?

 

Seems like if yeh have the lads go one at a time to da ballot box to fill out their ballot, there's less of the peer pressure/group think thing goin' on than if they vote while sittin' with the rest of da gang.

 

Wonder if yeh could enhance it even more by makin' 'em promise when they submitted the ballot that they've chosen the person who would do their best for the whole troop. Makin' that promise sometimes gets kids to think about what they're really doin' when they vote.

 

Beavah

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

Brent and Beavah, it sure is easy to see things in hindisght.

 

I had a talk with the scout who was elected as SPL at the campsite. I told him that I would support him as SPL if he chose to run, but I reminded him about the last election, in which after a 6 month term in which it took him 5.5 months to get it, he was just coming into his own as PL. I told him that I really needed him and that experience with that patrol to help build their skills and better prepare those scouts to be PL. I told him that I felt that with another 6 months as PL under his belt (and NYLT in February) he would do much better as SPL. He assured me he would be running for PL.

 

Likewise, when we were holding elections, I had the temporary SPL and a young but experienced ASM run elections. I was meeting with an older scout about his Eagle project and MBs. The scout did not run for PL at all, and I did not realize it until the ASM came to me with the results. Afterward, I did talk about to the Troop about responsibility, reliability and experience as they voted. Apparantly it fell on deaf ears.

 

I had the opportunity to dictate "standards" for SPL, but dedided to keep them low so that it would be an election and not a one man show. I did say that the PLC will be setting minimum standards after the election. The intention is to have scouts who may want to run work toward getting the necessary rank advancement and/or experience. Was that a bad decision on my part? Maybe, maybe not; we will see.

 

GWD-Scouter, your SPL sounds very much like the PL who was elected. He can never be wrong, and if you make any suggestions, he will simply ignore you. Our SPL is quite different. He simply doesn't have the experience to get it. He was completely puzzled about what a Troop Guide and Instructor actually did. In his defense, the only Instructors we have had are our older scouts who make only a few meetings a year and are rarely direclty involved in meetings.

 

As a result of this, I am considering a visit to another troop, one that is scout-led and well organized. I may even take not only the SPL (who has no clue of how a troop is to be led) but also our Instructor, who can meet with that troop's Instructors and see how they integrate in the meeting schedule. The SM of this troop is a retired SE and Distinguished Eagle Scout recepient. He does a great job with his scouts, and he has given me an open invitation to come with other scouts in tow.

 

We have an active schedule the next 6 weeks with Pack assistance with a School Night for Scouting, 2 fundraisers, 2 campouts and a lock-in (one campout will likely be rescheduled, but that was expected regardless of who was SPL). It will be a real trial by fire for our SPL to see if he can organize his end. I am reviewing the Green Bar material to see if any adjustments need to be made to accommodate his maturity and experience. I may need to focus a little more on organization to help fill in his blanks.

[SMT224]

About 3 yrs ago, I ran a matrix on Excel of all the Scouts factored by birth date (age) and rank. I was surprised to see that with our existing system of elections (similar to that described here), there would likely be several Scouts who would age out without a chance to be SPL. I brought this up with the PLC, and after much discussion, we radically altered the way the SPL would be "elected".

 

Here is what our system has evolved to:

The oldest Scout in the Troop is offered the position of SPL provided he meets the following criteria: Star Scout, 4 years in Troop, has held at least one other leadership position, has attended Troop training & has attended or will attend NYLT soon, attends 85% of all Troop meetings, all PLC meetings, 75% of outings and service projects. The term of the SPL is either 6 months or a year, depending on the readiness of the next Scout to take on the position.

 

The PLC did most of the development of this system, and it seems to be working well. Some qualified Scouts have declined the position, while other Scouts do not meet the criteria (but are interested and are working at becoming qualified).

 

So far its working, and the transparency via the PLC seems to have been institutionalized. Its been completely accepted by the Scouts and is now part of our culture. It appears to motivate Scouts to meet the criteria by the time their number comes up so they are ready to accept the position. They also like it as it appears to be very fair - everyone (who qualifies) gets a chance to be SPL. I know this is not the way its supposed to be done, but its working for us.

 

[BrentAllen]

BS,

Even when you think you have things figured out, you might still get a surprise in the elections. In ours, I thought for sure a certain alpha-male Scout would get elected SPL. He didn't, and I think the reason was his patrol didn't want him leaving them, so they voted for another candidate. I never questioned anyone about their vote, so this is just speculation on my part, but I don't have any other explanation for the results.

[Mafaking]

 

 

SMT224

 

That's a good way to do it. The program material should offer suggest more variables such as that.

[CalicoPenn]

With tongue not too firmly planted in cheek, I'd ask the new SPL, at the next PLC, when he plans to make everyone ribs as he promised to do.

[John-in-KC]

Even better,

 

Encourage the PLC to set that date for him

[Buffalo Skipper]

If you have looked at the Green Bar training, you will see that part of the training is to have the PLC do a campout on it's own. We will be setting that date on Saturday, and I will ask that. Thanks for a good way for me to keep this light.

[gwd-scouter]

BrentAllen - no, I don't think I have thicker skin than anyone else. I've just been doing this scouting thing and dealing with adults and boys for a long time. If all of our troop's parents were like this Mom, I would have throw in the towel a long time ago. As it is, she really is the only one in our troop (at least for now) that is not supportive of my attempts to help these guys be the best scouts they can be.

 

In an interesting twist, this scout was selected by our new SPL to be his ASPL. There were better choices, but the others from which he could have chosen are also in marching band with him and therefore would be gone for the next several months for Friday night camp set up and full weekends for band competitions. So, SPL essentially killed two birds with one stone - difficult scout did not run for patrol leader and hopefully will gain some insight and experience working with the SPL, and has the responsibility of being present those times in the next couple of months when SPL can't be.

 

I like the idea of a PLC campout. We've always done the training on a Saturday at my home, but a campout would be a better and more fun way to do training.

[Buffalo Skipper]

gwd-scouter,

The campout is not where you do the training. In fact there are 6 training sessions and a patrol (PLC) hike before the campout. The campout is where you hone the skills and planning you have done over the past several months. This is not a light few hour training--it is a long term project intended to engrain habits and experience, molding the scouts. That is something a morning training session like TLT simply cannot accomplish.

 

It is in this environment which I hope to reach these 2 scouts (and the others at the training) and really make a difference.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

[gwd-scouter]

Buffalo Skipper - yes, I know that. I was just saying that we've never done a PLC only campout before and I thought it was a good idea.

[Buffalo Skipper]

We never have either. And I am looking forward to it. I also would like to have 2 PLC outings per term doing something fun and, well, just memorable. Like climbing or sailing or an offshore fishing trip; not to really master skills but more like an outing-party than an event. Sure I expect it to be a team-building, bonding experience, but I want it to happen naturally, and not be forced. Fun would be theonly real item on the agenda.

[GKlose]

As a scout, besides our high adventure activities, I had two particular outings that were my absolute favorites.

 

One was a patrol leader training course that took place on an overnight. Late the next day, Friday, the rest of the troop came in for the weekend outing.

 

The other was an incentive outing. Our SM was worried about the popularity of a fundraiser, so he offered the top sellers a chance to "choose your own outing." I can't recall how many of us there were, but the small group of us chose to repeat our favorite all-around annual outing, a caving trip. Except that it was a different month (May versus March). Smaller group, and a different season more or less, in our favorite place. We had bats flying around rather than looking at tons of them hibernating above our heads.

 

Guy