Todays helicopter parents??

[Twocubdad]

Don't let the screen door hit them in the butt.

 

Like the dad I'm dealing with that I described in another thread, you may have to come to a parting of the ways with some of the parents. I hope you have the support of most parents and the troop committee. Call a parents meeting. Put together a really solid presentation explaining the methods of Scouting and the philosophy behind the Scout-led program. Explain that this is the program. If they are still uncomfortable, perhaps they should consider another troop or program.

 

I'd rather run a great program for five boys that a baby sitting service for 50.

[Eagle92]

Have you had a parents meeting with the newbies? I would have a parents' meeting, holding it with the CC, and time permitting the SPL. If SPL is available let him explain to the crowd exactly how the patrol method works, and how it is organized chaos b/c it allows scotus to fail and learn from their expereince. let them know how that this is the time for the youth to spread their wings, grow in maturity, knowledge, skills, abilities, and self confidence. Stress that by having parents interfer destroys the patrol method,therby weakenign the program to the point that it actually PREVENTS the scout from growing into the kind of men the parents' want their sons to be. I fyou can get a hold of the 3rd. ed SM handbook, there is a very good section on patrol method and hwo adult interference hurts.

 

Then I as SM would also emphasis all the safety training that leaders have to go through so that they do develope a level of comfort. tell them that your job is to train the jr. leaders to put on the program via planning, skills training, and execution of plans, BUT that you ultimately are resposnible adn that anything you feel is unsafe or contravenes BSA policy, you will prevent from happening.

 

If the CC is around, especially if he has or had a son in the program, I would have him talk about their experiences wit their son growing up in the troop. Another good source is an unregistered parent who has seen the growth and can really gicve a glowing testimonial on the patrol method.

 

You may not be able to please everyone, so some may leave. good luck.

[Lisabob]

"Can I go on the campout with my son?", says another. "I just want to be sure he's ok."

 

Of course you know that the answer to this is yes. And perhaps it might even be good for all involved. Who knows, she might evolve into a great ASM. At least she's not averse to camping! You'll need to lay some ground work though - "here is what adults do, and don't do, on camp outs and here's why" - that type of stuff. Then make sure you keep her busy so she isn't constantly tempted to wander over to her son's patrol! Surely the adults who attend have tasks during the day. Teach her to do some of them if she doesn't already know how.

 

From the sound of it, at the moment she doesn't know you well enough to feel she can fully trust you with her kid. Maybe she'll learn from her first-hand experience that camping with the troop isn't some big scary deal (for the boys) and that her son is in capable hands.

 

As for the one who wants to know the exact bike route and is upset about her son's patrol not giving him immediate tasks, I think a serious (friendly) sit-down with her, one of your most level-headed and calm ASMs, and your CC is in order. Help her understand the program. If she decides it isn't for her son, then wish them well elsewhere.

 

 

 

[Eamonn]

The little gray cells have been flashing.

I'm wondering why these parents are the way they are?

 

I was raised in a big city, HWMBO was raised in a small rural town.

Listening to the stories about her growing up and looking at my own childhood, it seems that we both were given a lot more freedom and Independence than the children of today.

It seems that we both grew up in a time when there was a far better sense of community.

As kids we didn't like the "Nosy little old Ladies" Who spied on us from behind lace curtains and reported every wrongdoing and sin to our parents. At times even our parents thought they were a bit of a pain! But just knowing they were out there playing Big Brother was some kind of a reassurance.

Our parents seemed OK with the idea that while every child is special and most kids are good at something, not every kid is good at everything. They accepted the fact that in life there are winners and there are losers. Learning to lose is and was just as an important lesson as learning to win.

We can today scare th pants of ourselves!

A week or so back a co-worker was in the office looking up where sex offenders in our area live. He seemed very concerned that not far from where I live there was three names listed, he went on to say how lucky he felt that he didn't live where I live (He only had one that lived by him!) I didn't want to burst his bubble by telling him that "My three" all lived in a local nursing home.

The information age has maybe given us too much information? We are overloaded with things that can drive us all nuts.

Many kids suffer from "Activity Overload" All their time is on a very tight schedule. Even the normal run of the mill kids. I watched OJ, leave for school at 0630 and not return home till almost 1900, only to rush back out again to attend Scouts or some other after school activity.

I watched his pain when he was upset when he didn't get the lead in the school play. I of course was happy to do nothing about this! As I seen it as a learning experience for him.

I'm not sure? But back when I was young it seemed OK that a kid wanted to be plumber or car mechanic when he left school, parents seemed OK with the idea that their kid was going to do something that would earn a living wage, even it did mean that he or she got their hands dirty.

Kids today don't seem to know what they want to do until they are in their mid-twenties. Schools seem happy to allow kids to leave school thinking that everyone in the world is going to be the next video game designer. Which just isn't the case, parents seem happy to spend many thousands of dollars educating their kid in a field where there just are no jobs.

"Keeping up with the Joneses" seems to no longer just be about the car you drive or where you live. Little Fellows in grade school have to wear the shoes and clothes that are in style. Nine year olds are playing one-up man-ship with their cell phones. Parents seem happy to buy their kids brand new expensive cars to go to school in. OJ had school friends who drove to school in new Hummers and Mercedes. (While he had the choice of my old Ford Explorer or his 2002 Nissan.)

I'm as guilty as anyone of not spending enough time with my son. When he was young I was far too busy to spend time with him!

I was happy to farm him out to all day Day-Care, made sure that when he started school he went to an all day Kindergarten, employed babysitters to keep an eye on him 3 or 4 nights a week.

While maybe I'm now reaping the benefits of how I spent my time then. For a very long time I was beating myself up for no spending time with him then.

I kept hearing about "Quality Time". I was never sure what it was? But felt I was at fault for not providing it.

I wonder if some of these helicopter parents are just feeling pangs of guilt?

Both HWMBO and myself had mothers who today would be called Home-makers. They didn't work outside of the home. Both of us come from families where our parents had committed relationships. As kids weren't part of the decision making process. We were just happy to be the kids. While my family was fairly well off, her Dad seemed to have gone from job to job. Listening to her mother it seems that at times things were tough, but it seems that HWMBO never knew or felt this.

I even today don't feel the need to tell my son, how much money I earn, or how much I might be worth. While he does have money that is in a trust fund and one day he will if he is lucky get whatever I manage to not spend before I die. I don't see that him knowing where every last penny is, is any of his business. The lawyers know what to do when I do kick the bucket.

I of course know that I don't have all the answers.

I'm not sure why people do what they do?

I know that I can only live my life by my own standards and my own values.

Parents who are willing to place their children in my care have very little choice but to take me as I am.

I'm way too old and way to mule-headed to change at this stage of my life.

I would hope that I'm willing to be as accommodating as I can be? But there comes a time when it really does become, my way or the highway.

Eamonn.

[True Believer]

Within the month of the Webelos cross-over into our troop, I hold a parents meeting for new parents (and any "old" parents who wish to attend). It is at this meeting that I go into detail about the BSA program, the patrol method, boy-led, etc. I even hand out an article from Psychology Today, which was on this web-site almost two years ago, about how this present generation is being harmed by their hovering parents. I build the BSA program as the solution.

The Troop chair also speaks, along with a number of other committee members.

 

But, having read what Eagle92 wrote, above, I think a change is in order. Having the SPL present to discuss the patrol method, and a Scoutmaster discussion of training for safety and the time put in by troop volunteers, is the missing link here. I think this would go a long way to getting some acceptance by these parents.

 

LisaBob, Last night I had one of our calm ASMs talk with the untrusting woman. It worked. In fact, she signed up to track leader training in the troop, which is probably the right job for her.

 

I also talked to a district rep and he has heard complaints from other troops as well. He suggested that I talk with these parents one and one, and nicely point out that their son, and those around him, are never going to grow up if they keep hovering. Make a deal that perhaps they can come to troop meetings once a month, instead of all four; to go on overnights once a quarter, instead of every one. This would let their sons grow. I thought this might work, too.

 

I think I need to send scouts into Webelos dens, and send myself once in a while, because this is where it seems to start. Would this story surprise you: one Webelos den's parents have told us that they will not allow their sons to join our troop because, when they visited us on a campout last fall, our Troop Guide had their boys actually cutting vegetables with a knife for dinner? I mean, "they could have cut their fingers off!"...

 

 

 

 

 

[SMT224]

Had a parent come to our Committee Chair and Parent Liaison near the end of the meeting last night to say that the reason her son (one of six new crossed over Scouts) would not be going on this months camping trip is that he was bullied on the last camping trip (the first Troop camping trip any of the new Scouts had been on).

 

Well, of course "bullied" immediately raises all kinds of red flags and merits an immediate investigation. She and her son were very vague as to what happened. Having been on the camping trip, I (as SM) had not witnessed and blatant bulling, but of course that doesn't mean things don't happen out of sight of adult leaders. When we pushed for details, apparently two of the new Scouts had been throwing pine cones at a tent while a Scout was in there, and then decided to drop the poles on him. He reacted by going after the two new Scouts and her son witnessed this and felt threatened.

 

We stopped it before it got out of hand, and had the two apologize, and help the Scout put his tent back up. But apparently witnessing this incedent had "scarred" her son, and she didn't want him going on another camping trip where such things might happen again. He was never bullied himself, just saw a conflict between Scouts that upset him. But clearly she knew the trigger words to get everyone excited.

 

Well, goodness! Apparently she (and her son) expect all Troop activities to be conflict free! Her son is on all kinds of meds - a multi-pill regiment I had to administer morning and night, and is "sensitive". We just shook our heads on this one. I'm really not too upset he won't be heading out with us this evening!

 

[Hal_Crawford]

Is the boy home schooled?

[SMT224]

Parochial.

 

About 1/3 of the Troop attends the same school, so he knows many of the Scout in the Troop from school.

[mmhardy]

SMT224,

 

I commend you for your service as a Scoutmaster.

 

While the incident with this kid is unfortunate it points out that not everyone is of the mindset required to be a successful Scout. In this case its the mindset of the parent. My wife is an elementary school principle who deals with the woop, woop, woop of parents on a daily basis. Out of several hundred students its only a handful that consume the most of her time. I suppose the same ratio could be applied in any troop.

 

[scoutldr]

I have been blessed...the parents of the scouts I have served have been very accomodating and trusting. They were just happy that I was taking their son away for the weekend and didn't much care what we did with him! That was best for all concerned!

 

Looks like I am wrapping up my Scouting career just in time!

[Twocubdad]

I was having a Star Scoutmaster's Conference with one of my really good Scouts who is currently serving as a Troop Guide for one of the new Scout patrols. I asked him how he thought the guys were coming together as a patrol. He said "fine" except that one boy doesn't like one of the other boys because he is "mean" to him. I asked what if he had seen any indication of it and what he thought about it. He said he hadn't seen any bullying going on, but that the "mean" kid was just loud and rowdy, but in a good way.

 

"So do you think the second kid is mean or you thing the first kid is just a wuss?" My troop guide cracked up laughing. "THAT'S exactly the problem," he said. So we starting talking about how that revalation changed the way he led the patrol.

 

Identifying the problem is always the first step.

[Kudu]

I used to get helicopter parents before our "Feeder Pack" folded. One of them called me to ask if she could drop by every week to pick up "POR assignments" for her precious darling who hadn't been to a meeting in a year because jazz band met on Monday nights. Jazz band was more important, but all he needed for Eagle was a POR and a project.

 

When I started recruiting my Scouts from the public schools, I discovered that I did not need a feeder Pack because the vast majority of sixth grade boys really want to join Boy Scouts, just like they did until Wood Badge discovered "Leadership Development" and killed the Patrol Method.

 

When I call the parents of the usually 45 boys who want to join after a presentation, I describe the benefits of Scouting strictly in terms of fresh air and sunshine. I never describe Scouting in terms of garbage like "Leadership and Ethical Choices," or the advantages of "Eagle Scout" on a couch potato's business resume.

 

And I never encountered a helicopter parent again.

 

Sometimes my Wood Badge buddies would tag along to see how I did it, and they would point out that if I did a better job of selling parents on the "benefits of Scouting" more than the usual 15 would register their sons as Scouts.

 

That might be true, but remember that all 45 of the kids were boys who had either dropped out of Cub Scouts, or would never (ever) join something like that to begin with. I can't tell you how many mothers laughed when I first called and told me how shocked they were when their rough and tumble son "just came home from school and said he wanted to be a Boy Scout!"

 

So it is GI=GO, pure and simple: You reap what you sow.

 

If you want to see helicopter parents, just wait until the BSA switches from camping to computers, aerospace, and soccer; all in the name of "Leadership and Ethical Choices"!

 

Kudu

 

[SSScout]

Three true stories:::

 

I am working as the "closer" at my transit service. I sign the last drivers in (1am) and put everything away and lock the doors. 10:30pm, I get a call on the "private" line (still don't know how they got it). Lady wants to know some transit travel info, how to get from here to there. I start to oblige, then ask, "Why are you going there?" She says, "Oh, it's not for me, my son is taking a special advanced XYZ class at the college tomorrow, and I'm calling for him". ((!??))

"How old is your son?"

"15".

"Will you be going with him to the class?"

"(laugh) Certainly not!"

"Then shouldn't I be speaking with him?"

"(silence)"

"Ma'am?"

"Just a minute (in the back ground) JAKE Come here! This man wants to talk to you!"

"Hello?"

"Hi. So your taking a class at XYZ tommorrow?"

"Yeah"

"Do you know how to get there?"

"Yeah, I guess so"

"Have you been there before?"

"No"

"Is your mom going with you tomorrow?"

"(guffaw) No-o-o-o."

" So can I help you with the directions?"

"Okay"

...and we had a good conversation after that. Never heard back how the class went.

 

I am a tour guide for American Youth Hostels. We have a teen bike tour leaving to bike around Cape Cod. I get a call about 6pm the night before. Dad wants to know if they can bring the girls bike over to my house and can I check it out. Sure. They arrive, I check it out,adjust this, tighten that, point my finger, speak to the girl (14) and see she really does know a little about biking, but this is the first serious tour she's gone on. Dad asks if she can ride around here to check out my adjustments. I give them directions and the girl rides off, WITH THE DAD FOLLOWING IN HIS CAR. Half an hour later they are back. Dad has a thought, asks, "what happens if it rains?" I say "they get wet". Girl smiles, says she has a poncho. I assure him our tour chaperons are well trained and the tour is well mapped, nice places to stay at night (hold out the brochure). They called a month later and thanked me.

 

About two weeks ago, I announced to the local Scout world that I would counsel a MB. I get a phone call and the lady on the other end announces "my son wants to earn that MB, what's your schedule for classes?" I said it depended on the number of Scouts that want to earn it. Was she going to work on it, or her son? She said "(giggle) no, I don't think I will". "Well then, don't you think your Scout should be calling me? I'll be glad to arrange things with him." That caught her off guard. "I'll tell him, and he will call you." Haven't heard back yet.

 

[True Believer]

Last night, I held my quarterly scoutmasters meeting. Since I heard hearsay complaints that we discriminated against women (even tho our troop committee chair is a woman), I invited anyone who was thinking of becoming a scoutmaster. One of my helicopter moms showed up.

 

I let the ASMs in the room describe the commitment and training involved. But the big moment came when they stressed that as an adult leader, you are a guest in camp, NOT your son's father or mother. You have to stay separate.

 

With that, her face dropped, and she became very troubled. I asked her if she had a question because it looked like something as bothering her. She said, "well, I told my son I was doing this so that we could be together at camp. " One of the ASMs quickly and nicely disabused her of this notion, saying it is not good for the boy or the other boys in the troop. IT's not what the program is all about. She seemed to accept that, and I had the Troop Chair contact her to take one of the committee positions. She knows that she is always welcome to camp with us, but know she has heard "the rules" from others.

 

Two down, three to go.....

 

The more I think about this, the more I think this is really about assuring the parent that we are trained and safe, and that boy-led works.

[OldGrayOwl]

Here is what we give the parents that decide to go with us on campouts:

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

What Adults Do on Scout Campouts

 

Here is some information we try to give parents on their first campout or one of their first campouts with our troop.

Camping is the heart of Boy Scouting, so please take a few minutes to read this sheet. Boy Scouting is absolutely different from Cub Scouting or Webelos! And while parents (and sometimes whole families) sometimes accompany the Scouts on campouts, the Scouts camp with their patrol and not with their parents and family members.

 

Policy Summary

Here is a summary of the Troop (and BSA) policies, followed by the reasoning for the policies. There are exceptions, but these policies are in effect on most outings.

 

Scout Tenting & MealsScouts tent with their patrol in a patrol site separate from the other patrols. Patrols plan their own menus, and cook and eat together as a team. In general, adults do not eat or tent with a boy patrol. The SM and ASMs might eat with the patrols as a (surprise) guest.

 

Adult Tenting & MealsAdults tent with the adult patrol in a patrol site separate from the other patrols. We plan our own menu, and cook and eat together as a team. In general, adults do not eat with a boy (Scout) patrol, and NEVER tent with them.

 

Adult/Boy TentingBSA youth protection policies forbid an adult and a boy sharing the same tent. BSA classifies an adult as anyone over the age of 18. This means that while a brother of another Scout is less than 18, they may tent together, once that Scout turns 18, he may no longer tent with his brother and other Scouts in the same tent. While youth protection policies may not apply to a father and son tenting together, it is troop policy that boys tent with boys and adults with adults. If a father tents with his son, it has been our experience that the boy will lose out on many opportunities to make decisions and be part of the patrol team! [Yes, you are probably the rare exception, but it would not be fair to the other adults to single you out.]

 

Smoking/DrinkingDrivers may not smoke while Scouts are in the car. Adults should not smoke or use tobacco products, nor drink alcoholic beverages during a Scout activity. Adults, who feel that they must smoke or chew, must do so discretely out of sight and downwind of the Scouts. (They know who smokes, anyway, so why do it in the first place)?

 

Boy LeadershipAdults should not interfere with the functioning of youth leaders, even if they make mistakes (we all learn best from our mistakes). Step in only if it is a matter of immediate safety or if the mistake will be immediately costly. If possible, involve a uniformed adult leader first. (Uniformed leaders (SM, ASM), are the ONLY adults that are allowed to have direct interaction with the youth).

 

Boy GrowthNever, NEVER do anything for a boy that he can do himself. Let him make decisions without adult interference, and let him make non-costly mistakes, even if it means telling him NO, go ask another Scout for help first. If your son keeps running to you for help, he will not learn. Please, tell him to figure it out for himself, or direct him to his Patrol Leader, or to the Senior Patrol Leader. This is the hierarchy in the Troop. The Scouts learn by doing, not by watching. (This can be very difficult for some parents. We know that you have been doing for him since birth, but it is time to let him stand on his own two feet.).

Adult Training & ResourcesThe Boy Scouts of America provides an outstanding handbook for adults, and an excellent training course to help us understand the goals of Scouting and how to attain them. The adult manual is called the Scoutmaster Handbook, and it's worth your time to read it. The training is called Scout Leader Basic Training, and is offered in our area at least twice a year. It's also a good investment of your time. Our troop gives our uniformed adult leaders a copy of the Scoutmaster Handbook, and requires that they complete Scout Leader Basic Training. We encourage other adults to follow suit.

 

Rationale:

 

Boy Scout camping activities center on the patrol, where boys learn teamwork, leadership, and most camping skills. It is important that adults not be in the middle of patrol activities such as site selection, tent pitching, meal preparation, and anything else where boys get to practice decision-making.

 

A key difference between Boy Scouting and Cub Scouting/Webelos is

leadership. Look for the word "leader" in a job title, and you will begin to appreciate the difference. The responsible person for a Cub/Webelos den is the adult Den Leader. The responsible person for a Boy Scout patrol is the boy Patrol Leader. This isn't token leadership.

 

A Patrol Leader has real authority and genuine responsibilities. Much of the success, safety, and happiness of six to ten other boys depends directly on him. The Senior Patrol Leader is the one that is in complete charge of the troop. He is the one that the Scouts are to go to BEFORE going to an adult. The only person that the SPL has to answer to is the Scoutmaster. Yes, we know that it is hard to believe that someone as young as 11 can be in charge of a group of Scouts older than himself, but he was elected to be their leader, so please respect that.

 

Our troop considers the SPL, ASPLs and the JASMs to be junior adults. That is to say that since they are in charge of the troop and since they have the responsibility of the troop and not part of a regular patrol, we have them join us (the Geezers) for meals. The meal then becomes a working meal, with the SM and ASM being able to talk with the youth leaders as to what is going on during the campout, any problems and what is going to be coming up. The JASMs (Junior Assistant Scoutmasters) are sort of like Assistant Scoutmasters in training. This position gives the Scouts first hand training on how the Assistant Scoutmasters work with the Troop.

Boy Scouting teaches leadership, and boys learn leadership by practicing it, not by watching adults lead.

 

So what do we adults do, now that we have surrendered so much direct authority to boys? Here are our troop's guidelines on the indirect, advisory role you now enjoy: (no kidding, you should enjoy watching your son take progressively more mature and significant responsibilities as he zooms toward adulthood).

 

The underlying principle is never to do anything for a boy that he can do himself. We allow boys to grow by practicing leadership and by learning from their mistakes. And while Scout skills are an important part of the program, what ultimately matters when our Scouts become adults is not whether they can use a map & compass, but whether they can offer leadership to others in tough situations; and can live by a code that centers on honest, honorable, and ethical behavior.

 

Boys need to learn to make decisions without adult intervention (except when it's a matter of immediate safety). Boys are in a patrol so they can learn leadership and teamwork without adult interference.

 

One thing to remember is what Baden Powell used to say: There is no record of a Scout dying from not eating on a weekend Scout campout. Sometimes we get Scouts that just do not like what has been placed before him. Please do not go and get him something else to eat. He needs to learn to eat what the Patrol has decided for the meals. Please do not let him bring a lot of candy or snacks with them. For one thing, there is to be no food of any kind in their tents (the wild animals in the area can smell the food and will go into the tents to get it). Another thing, if they have this extra food, they will not be inclined to eat the proper food.

 

Being an adult advisor is a difficult role, especially when we are advising kids (even worse, our own sons). At least twice each year, the Boy Scouts of America offers special training on how to do this, which we expect our uniformed adults to take. And any adult is welcomeand encouragedto take the training (see the Scoutmaster or the Committee Chairman; the dates are in the Councils annual calendar).

 

If a parent goes on a campout, you are an automatic member of our "Geezers" (adult) patrol. This patrol has several purposesgood food and camaraderie (of course), but more important is providing an example the boy patrols can follow without our telling them what to do (we teach by example). Since a patrol should camp as a group, we expect the "Geezers" to do so also; that way, adults don't tent in or right next to a boy patrol where your mere presence could disrupt the learning process.

 

Quite simply, our troop requires that the adults to cook, eat, and tent separately from the Scouts (even dads & sons). We are safely nearby, but not smotheringly close. Sure, go ahead and visit the patrol sites (not just your son;s), talk to your son (and the other Scouts), ask what's going on or how things are going. But give the guys room to grow while you enjoy the view. Show a Scout how to do something, but don't do it for him. Avoid the temptation to give advice, and do not jump in just to prevent a mistake from happening (unless it's very serious), and NEVER criticize your son in front of or within hearing of his peers. We all learn best from our mistakes.

 

And let the patrol leader (even if he is your son), lead.

Your job is tough, challenging, and ultimately rewarding, because your son will be a man the day after tomorrow.

"Some parents are curious as to what camping or attending the Troop meeting with a scout troop is all about and would like observe it for themselves. Others are thinking of becoming an adult leader in the troop and would like to start learning about the program first hand. Some just love to camp and will take any opportunity to enjoy the outdoors and the fellowship of other adults. These are some of the right reasons why a parent would want to camp with the troop.

 

Unfortunately, there are some parents who want to camp or attend the Troop meetings for the wrong reasons - without even realizing it.

 

 

1. Do not go if you feel your son will spend more time with you than with his fellow scouts. He must learn to rely on them and his Scoutmaster instead of you.

 

2. Do not go if you know you are the kind of person who must be in control of things to maintain order or you get frustrated when you see others not performing to your standards. Your son and the rest of the scouts need every opportunity to make decisions (right or wrong) on their own and practice their leadership skills.

 

3. Do not go if your son says he will only attend if you go too. You must foster your son;s self reliance so he can take his first steps towards adulthood. Give your son the courage to take that first step.

 

4. Do not go because you are uncomfortable leaving your son with strangers. Take the time to get to know the Troops leaders beforehand. You must place your trust in their years of experience and training. You must realize that from the adult leader;s perspective, you are the stranger.(This message has been edited by OldGrayOwl)