better campout participation

[MattR]

I was talking to my troop about how scouting is an adventure and I talked about the great adventures I've had the past 7 years. Making friends backpacking, sailing alongside a whale on a moonless night, sea kayaking, waking up by a fog covered lake, and lots of other great memories. Afterwords, I realized these memories are all from high adventure trips. Our weekend campouts are fun, but not memorable. I ask scouts at the end of each trip what was fun and they rattle off stuff so we're doing something right. But the problem I have is that we now only have about a third of the troop go on campouts. We used to have at least half and typically 3/4. Each scout that doesn't go has a reason why and it varies all over the place; other activities, my friends aren't going, homework, etc.

 

My question is do campouts need to be more than fun? I want more enthusiasm and enthusiasm comes from success. But success implies a risk of failure. Do our campouts need more challenge? Do the good memories come from apprehension of the unknown leading to success? For a new scout there is apprehension about camping but for a 15 year old it's all old stuff, even if they have fun. The challenge doesn't need to be a hard hike but could just be that the only pot allowed for cooking breakfast will be the lid of a dutch oven. I'd like to spend two or three of the weekly meetings preparing for each campout. It could be learning/teaching skills or getting organized for some event. For our next meeting we have the swat team coming in for a demo. That's great but it has little to do with camping. Once in a while having the swat team come in is a good idea but that's what most of our meetings are, and campouts are, I don't know, almost extra-curricular.

 

 

[kenk]

It seems that if the campouts and other activities are things that the Scouts want to do, and places that the Scouts want to go - within reason, then participation should come naturally.

 

THAT is why troops should be boy lead!!

 

One of the important aspects of the planning is to allow the average Joe-Scout to provide their input via the patrol. The planning process should allow the PL to bring back ideas to the patrol, and then later come to the PLC with feedback and hopefully new ideas garnered from the patrol(s).

[MattR]

kenk, The scouts do pick the calendar and events. We have a whole campout just for the PLC to pick the calendar. We start a few weeks in advance collecting ideas from the troop. ON the campout we review the old calendar, set goals, generate ideas, vote on them, and fit them into a calendar. It's boy led. The problem is they have no idea what would really get them excited (that we can afford). They don't know what they don't know

 

[Mafaking]

 

My guess is that you have a disconnect with the parents not the scouts. The parents have checked off this experience as sufficient. They are the ones who see little value in your camping program. Ask them what's wrong with your program. Your scout will go if mom clears their calendar and drops them off.

 

 

 

 

[shortridge]

The problem is they have no idea what would really get them excited (that we can afford). They don't know what they don't know.

 

It sounds as though your PLC has gotten into a bit of a rut, perhaps. Many a troop has been there, where you end up going to the same state parks, the same camporees, over and over, and there's little to no variation.

 

The brainstorming part of "coming up with ideas" can be the biggest challenge. As socialized humans, we tend to self-censor our most ambitious ideas as "too much," "too expensive," "too ----," and don't even throw them up on the wall for others to take a crack at.

 

To keep them from falling into that rut, and to help boost the number of ambitious ideas, try this. Pick up a current copy of Backpacker or National Geographic Adventure magazines, and pluck out those reader service cards in the back - the ones where you can get free info on gear, destinations, trips, etc. Fill out as many as you can. Go to the Web sites of tourism agencies in surrounding states and request info on ecotourism and outdoor opportunities. Then take all that stuff - the gear catalogues, the Montana tourism brochures, even the Himalayan trip-guiding company's newsletter - and give it to your Scouts. I can almost guarantee their ideas will become more ambitious.

 

The next step is to scale them down. If your Scouts want to go whitewater rafting but the nearest suitable river is too far away for a weekend trip, try compromising by going on a long-distance kayaking trek, a "survival" canoe trek where you just bring a fanny pack of gear, or an actual build-a-raft expedition. That'll get them out on the water in a different way that's still new and exciting. And they can plan a week-long whitewater trip in place of next year's summer camp, if cost is a major obstacle.

 

But getting those ideas kick-started seems to be your first big task.

[gwd-scouter]

MattR, our Troop was in much the same rut as you describe. Same old camping trips year after year. Our guys just weren't thinking beyond their own experiences. Unfortunately, the past adult leadership wasn't very imaginative either. So, about five years ago, we held a planning weekend and gave the boys a kick start. Every car camping trip they wanted to do had to be at a place they had never been. They had to put two backpacking trips on the calendar. They had to come up with two ideas for something they had never done.

 

My instructions to them were to just put everything they thought of, no matter how ridiculous it sounded, on a list. Then, talk about the list and the pros and cons of everything on it. Yep, they had some really fanciful ideas. Some clearly out of bounds which they found out by looking in the G2SS. That first year they wanted to go to an amusement park. They thought for sure I would say no. They were wrong.

 

Yes, I stepped all over the PLC, I know. Over the years since they have wonderfully varied calendars of events including a couple of trips designed solely for the older Scouts (sans adults). Even better, we have close to 100 percent participation for everything. If a Scout misses a trip these days, it is because of a family or school commitment. I no longer hear the excuse that a guy just doesn't feel like going.

 

Absolutely throw a challenge in on the campouts. Make it a patrol challenge. Sure, cooking only on the lid of a dutch oven is a good idea. How about cooking without utensils? No clean up cooking? Which patrol can get their site set up first? Beat the clock on cleanup after a meal. As shortridge suggests, gather up a bunch of brochures, magazines, etc. with camping ideas. That's how our guys started including cave crawling trips - one of the most anticipated trips every year and each year more adventurous than the last.

 

By the way, I'm not sure I buy into the statement that enthusiasm comes from success. I very rarely hear the guys talk about the beautifully sunny weekend when everything went right. Nope, they remember the frozen pancake batter, the rain soaked weekend when the sun finally came out as we were leaving. Almost every Scout in the Troop has a nickname derived from some dunder-headed thing he did on a campout.

 

Good luck to ya!

[BrentAllen]

gwd,

I wouldn't say you stepped all over the PLC, I would say you provided vision. Some people get so wrapped up in boy-lead they forget that the leaders do have a part in a Troop - to provide a vision, to give direction when needed. If the boys are in a rut, help them get out.

 

MattR,

You might also ask the boys to talk to Scouts in other Troops to find out what are their favorite trips. They might get some good ideas from them.

 

As for participation, I repeat this same phrase in Webelos SM conferences, at our December COH, and whenever I feel it necessary:

 

The real price of membership in this Troop will be unfailing regular attendance at its meetings and outings, and steady progress in all the things that make a Scout "Prepared." If I put my own time into the activities of this Troop I shall certainly expect you to do your part with equal faithfulness.

 

Am I worried about scaring Webelos and their parents off to another Troop? Absolutely not. This statement lets them know our expectations, and if they aren't comfortable with it, I would prefer they find another Troop. We are all about quality, not quantity. I would much rather prefer to work with a small Troop of fired-up Scouts than a large Troop where they are so-so.

 

I'm not smart enough to know how to run a boy-lead, Patrol Method program in a Troop where the boys don't show up regularly. I let those Webelos know that when they don't show up, they leave their Patrol a man short. They are counting on the members of their Patrol, and the Patrol is counting on them.

 

Do we have 100% participation? Not all the time. Our Scouts are involved in many other activities, so there are conflicts. But because of their sense of duty and loyalty, I have been amazed at the lengths some have gone to in order to attend another event and our campout.

 

Finally, how are your campfires? To me, the campfires have always provided the equivalent of the "Disney Magic" that brings them back. Does the Troop have a campfire program? A Scout acting as MC? Skits? Thorns and Roses? If not, your Troop is missing out on a huge opportunity.

[Stosh]

There's a ton of stuff one can do to make the outings more challenging.

 

1) Survival weekend, minimal equipment, blanket, tarp, messkit, food, clothing and go. Learn to make snares, fish with manmade equipment, etc.

 

2) Historical weeeknd - do a Lewis/Clark trip, using historical equipment. Sleep in a leanto under the canoe... Look at the 1911 edition reprint for making equipment. No modern equipment.

 

3) Mode of travel, bikes, hikes, canoe don't cost anything to do.

 

4) Wilderness camping, hike to a game preserve and camp there if allowed.

 

5) Winter camp

 

6) Sandbar camp if near a river

 

7) Make kayaks and use them for traveling/camping

 

People use the tried and true trips because they don't think outside the box. OA ordeal allowed the boys an experience that was very different, repeat it for all the boys. Making equipment for an outing makes the preparation just as much fun as the outing itself.

 

Stosh

[MattR]

Thanks for the ideas. I feel more comfortable about starting over with the calendar. We have a lot of adults with ideas and I think I'll use those to get the scouts thinking. Mafaking also has a point. I don't think the parents understand how important the comraderie is to scouting and it's primarily from the campouts. And I never really thought of this until just now, so thanks.

 

Another question: How much of your meetings are spent preparing for a campout? As I said before, the campouts aren't the focus of the meetings. We just figure out menus. We could be doing skits. We could Be Prepared for whatever new activity is going to happen. Our scouts spend so much time organizing other activities besides campouts that the campouts are not important. I think half of our meetings should be getting ready for the campouts; menus, skits, skills.

 

Gwd-scouter, I should rephrase my comment about enthusiasm and success. In order to have success there needs to be some failure. Figuring out how to deal with the frozen pancake batter is success, even if it's going hungry. If they came up with a good idea like creating a double boiler and got to eat then that's even better because they solved their problem. In either case they'll remember this because it's a challenge. If nature creates enough challenges and new situations then I don't need to add anymore, but I'm wondering if the scouts need to add challenges like breakfast is to be cooked on a stick.

 

Last question: How do you require a certain level of participation? If helping them come up with a better program is the carrot. Do I need a stick? I tell my older scouts that To Help Other People At All Times implies teaching the younger scouts skills. When I first started this I got blow back from everyone, but now the older scouts have decided they actually like it. Is there a similar thing I can do for the camping?

[hingram]

The most common complaints I hear are about food and weather. You have to ease the kids into campouts. A 11 year-old isn't ready for a 12 mile hike and chili for dinner, especially if he doesn't like chili. Let them "graduate" to big Scout camping. We also have a hard time keeping them warm. Gearing up can be expensive and time consuming.

 

Our young scouts want to camp out and eat hot dogs on sticks. We can add a little more each time.

 

We already did a "real" survival exercise and the kids did not walk away with a good feeling needless to say.

[shortridge]

If there's enough going on to keep the young Scouts active, they won't even notice the cold or lousy food.

 

My very first Boy Scout campout was at a coastal state park, Assateague Island in Maryland. It was cold, rainy and miserable, and we were all near-complete novices at everything, despite having come up together through Cubs.

 

For lunch on Saturday, we ate hot dogs - nice and simple. The Scoutmaster only had to gently suggest that we cook more than one hot dog at a time if we wanted to finish eating by dinner. We spent the day hiking around the park, checking out the Chincoteague ponies, exploring the beaches and practicing knots and knife work.

 

Dinner was lukewarm spaghetti, eaten huddled under a spare rain tarp (because we'd forgotten ours). That spaghetti still ranks as the best meal I've ever eaten. (Sorry, Mom!)(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Karen_216]

Maybe have a few boys go to Roundtable. They can talk to other troops and find out where they go and also find out info on activities.

I went to a Pow wow and the troop leaders that were teaching cooking said they challenge each packing trip to come up with a theme. International or a historical and the boy have to research and come up with recipes.

Have some scouts spend some time on the internet (I'm sure they are anyway!!) and bring in list of palces you've never been and want to go and vote on them.

This may bring more inspiration, if it's to the same places some just get bored and don't even try to clear their calender.

Aslo do something other than just hiking- a biking or boating outing if you can.

Just some ideas- maybe some boredom has set in and they need inspiration.

[gwd-scouter]

MattR, you ask how much of your meetings should be geared toward the campout? Do your scouts use troop meeting plans each month? For instance, you have a backpack trip coming up. Do your scouts plan to go over different types of backpacks, how and what to pack, how to use a backpack stove, lightweight food options, etc.? All of these skills instructions could be worked into your meetings leading up to the trip.

 

Car camping at the state park? Will the campout have a theme? A cooking challenge can be fun. Patrols working up skits or songs for the campfire could be part of one meeting. Naturally you'll have menu and duty roster planning for another. Maybe patrol competitions are the plan for the weekend. A whole bunch of options for meeting plans there. Rather than having the adults plan the competitions, let each patrol plan them. You may be surprised at the imagination of your guys when they get to come up with their own ideas for games.

 

Looking back, there are several things that made the difference in participation in our Troop. The first was the aging out of our wet-blanket older boys that did not want to buy into the boy-led patrol method.

 

We put a stop to canceling trips because of poor participation. If only three guys signed up, we went anyway. We concentrated on training the younger scouts to take ownership of their troop and after a few years it took hold. As I mentioned in my previous post, they did require a lot of jump-starting by the adults but eventually they got the idea. Getting our adults to step back and let the guys run the show, even if chaos ensued, was a challenge. Once I heard the guys saying "if we plan it, we can do it," I knew we were on the right path.

 

Our guys enjoy the more adventurous activities, but they also enjoy the free flowing, no real schedule campouts they have a couple of times a year. Maybe because on those campouts they are free to hang out together, play games, and just be boys. Even though those campouts look like nothing more than fun, they are learning things along the way.

[Eagle732]

Stosh,

Our troop does 6 out of 7 from your list. Still our next camping trip, a 30 mile bike hike, will have only about 25% attendance. I have no idea why. Our scouts choose their camping trips.

[MattR]

Eagle732,

 

You say only 25% of your scouts are going on the bike hike. Have you done bike hikes before? (We haven't and it sounds like fun.) If it's not a new idea, is this to a new place or have you already been there before? I really would like the answers to these questions.

 

Since I first started this thread I've added a new requirement for every campout. It has to be memorable. New place, new skill, or new theme. One campout was to the Air Force Academy (canceled because of bad weather, so we'll keep it for next time). At Spring Camporee we told them to bring camo and they played capture the flag (in the fog) and we also required the use of a dutch oven for dinner. We gave them a list of a dozen dutch oven recipes to try from to make it easier. We got half the troop to show up and considering it was end of school, prom, etc this is the best showing we've had in a while. It was a success. When I say "we" I mean myself, another adult, the SPL, and the ASPLs.

 

It seems like coming up with unique ideas is a skill that needs to be developed. Right now the adults are doing most of it and I want to move it towards the scouts, but it's going to take time.